When I did my clinical study for Merck, they had pomegranates on the forbidden list of foods during the trial. Guess they did not want anything to interfere with the validity of the study. Now I know why pomegranates were forbidden. That study, C-Worthy, had excellent SVR rates. Unfortunately, they probably won't get FDA approval until mid 2015.
I did antioxidants over the years and went into my study (with cirrhosis) with only 800,000 viral load and enzymes under 100. My Hep C did not bother me much over the years. I do believe supplements help with liver health.
"Researchers at the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) in Bangalore found that three compounds in pomegranate (punicalin, punicalagin and ellagic acid), suppresses the Hepatitis C virus. More specifically, these three pomegranate compounds found in the fruits peel successfully inhibit the NS3 protease enzyme in Hepatitis C."
I have been eating/drinking pomegranate for years. I make the jelly every year. Maybe it's contributed to my low VL. The pith is pretty nasty stuff, but next time I make pomegranate jelly, I'll boil the peel with the seeds. I also took milk thistle for a while which hopefully helped.
I was low Vit D, too. They had me take megadoses of D before I started treatment.
I had a expert gastro friend from Ohio state say that this is one area they are starting to research big time to treat Hep C
I start my day with 6 to 8 oz. of pomegranate juice. I had borderline high blood pressure 2 years ago and my PCP put me on Lisinopril. I was not overweight, exercised, had a decent diet and watched my sodium intake. I'm now Hep C free, no longer have hbp and don't have to take Lisinopril. I noticed a modest decline in hbp within a couple weeks of regularly drinking pomegranate juice, even before I started S/O tx last January.
I had a expert gastro friend from Ohio state say that this is one area they are starting to research big time to treat Hep C
Gator Man said
Oct 23, 2014
Groupergetter wrote:
G man my wife and I were both the surfers in the younger days. Grew up on the beach in Daytona. Had the nice Hansen 50-50 wish I still had it. My skin looks very much like that of the little fella you used to hold in your hands. Back in the pre- SVR days. I currently take a multi vitamin, B-complex and B12 but never have had levels tested. Thanks for continuing to hang out with us pre-svr folks. The good vibes go a long way
GG, my hangout was from Matanzas Inlet north to St. Augustine. I saw a Hansen 50-50 for sale not too long ago at $1,200. There are a few toys from our youth that we wish we had kept over the years. I mentioned to my wife one time about buying a vintage board; I got the stare as a reply.
In the surf mode, I'll keep sending "Good Vibrations" to anyone still fighting this disease. All you pre-SVRs will be SVRs in the near future!
-- Edited by Gator Man on Thursday 23rd of October 2014 07:03:22 PM
pl1952 said
Oct 22, 2014
I'm Vitamin D deficient also...Last month my Dr. told me to take 2,000 i.u./day
Groupergetter said
Oct 22, 2014
Gator Man wrote:
Isiscat2011 wrote:
Me too, Mugsy. The upside is that you probably have really nice skin. I grew up in California and some of the people I know who stayed there have skin like old shoes now.
Since I left Florida and surfing at the age of 22, I would say that my skin resembles the loafers in the back of the closet more than the army boots out in the garage-old is relative!
Malcolm posted this back in January with an attached article regarding vitamin D and liver disease:
Vitamin D and HepC are contentious issues. The generally accepted normal levels are 40-80 ng/ml. Most Vitamin D is obtained from sun exposure, and most agree that a low level like yours, should be treated with supplements. Obviously you are not getting enough sun, so the standard daily dose to get to acceptable levels is 5,000 i.u./day. Some will say that's too much, and only take 2,000 i.u./day. The only way to be sure is to get the test repeated after a month.
Vitamin D is essential for bone health, and deficiency has been reported to be associated with increased liver fibrosis, and poor response to Interferon treatment. Here's one link.
G man my wife and I were both the surfers in the younger days. Grew up on the beach in Daytona. Had the nice Hansen 50-50 wish I still had it. My skin looks very much like that of the little fella you used to hold in your hands. Back in the pre- SVR days. I currently take a multi vitamin, B-complex and B12 but never have had levels tested. Thanks for continuing to hang out with us pre-svr folks. The good vibes go a long way
Mugsy said
Oct 22, 2014
Thanks for passing along the info Gator Man. The article mentioned how VitaminD helped with IFN treatment. Wonder if it is true for DAAs? Guess I'll find out once I board the Harvoni train. I will ask about retesting in a month. Five thousand IUs seems like a lot, but the pharmacist also agreed with the dosages.
And Isiscat, when I get home from visiting family in Arizona, I feel dessicated, like a slug left on the sidewalk in the sun! It takes weeks to feel rehydrated. But I wouldn't want to live anywhere else than the Pacific NW.
-- Edited by Mugsy on Wednesday 22nd of October 2014 10:49:41 PM
Gator Man said
Oct 22, 2014
Isiscat2011 wrote:
Me too, Mugsy. The upside is that you probably have really nice skin. I grew up in California and some of the people I know who stayed there have skin like old shoes now.
Since I left Florida and surfing at the age of 22, I would say that my skin resembles the loafers in the back of the closet more than the army boots out in the garage-old is relative!
Malcolm posted this back in January with an attached article regarding vitamin D and liver disease:
Vitamin D and HepC are contentious issues. The generally accepted normal levels are 40-80 ng/ml. Most Vitamin D is obtained from sun exposure, and most agree that a low level like yours, should be treated with supplements. Obviously you are not getting enough sun, so the standard daily dose to get to acceptable levels is 5,000 i.u./day. Some will say that's too much, and only take 2,000 i.u./day. The only way to be sure is to get the test repeated after a month.
Vitamin D is essential for bone health, and deficiency has been reported to be associated with increased liver fibrosis, and poor response to Interferon treatment. Here's one link.
I live in the Pacific NW and grow moss on my northside due to no sunshine during the fall/ winter.
Me too, Mugsy. The upside is that you probably have really nice skin. I grew up in California and some of the people I know who stayed there have skin like old shoes now.
I've been taking 1000 IU daily for maybe 2 years--can't remember when I started--and my levels are close to normal now. The cirrhosis can make the situation worse but so many non-cirrhotics who live in sunshine deprived areas are Vit D deficient too.
Mugsy said
Oct 22, 2014
Last week, my hepatologist ordered a Vitamin D test for me. Mine came back @ 17.9, so I am on 5000IU of D3 daily for 2 months then a maintenance dose of 2000IU afterwards. Seems like a big dose to me, but I do trust my doctor. Had no idea my cirrhotic liver could not process well enough to extract Vitamin D anymore.
I live in the Pacific NW and grow moss on my northside due to no sunshine during the fall/ winter.
Gator Man said
Oct 22, 2014
Matt Chris wrote:
The vitamin D supplement discussion still has not been made totally clear yet. I am totally convinced that most North Americans that live in a region where winter time does not allow them to receive the proper amount of sunlight can have a Vit. D deficiency. The part that is unclear is how to make up the deficiency? Can vit. D3 really do it, or should we be downing cod liver oil and eating sardines. Any thought on what supplement can do the best, because I am certian that I feel a whole lot better in the summer than the winter even with Vit. D3 supplements.
matt
At my last followup at 26 weeks EOT, vitamin D came back at 38.1 ng/ml. It has been in the normal range for the last few months. I've been taking 3,000 and then 2,000 IU/day of vitamin D3 since the start of tx because of vitamin D deficiency. After the last test, the doctor lowered the daily amount to 1,000 IU.
I certainly don't get the amount of sunlight exposure that I had growing up in Florida and probably shouldn't at this point. Diet alone will not be adequate to resolve a deficiency. If otc vitamin D3 supplements had not worked, the doctor was going to prescribe something to presumably increase absorption. This is not as significant of an issue for those who don't have liver disease, even without adequate sunlight or nutrition intake.
Angel67 said
Oct 22, 2014
I have been spending a fortune in the health food shop..Milk thistle, Alpha lipoic acid, Selenium, Omega 3....the list goes on, but my consultant says,"don't waste your money"! But what are we to do? I feel like I should do something as I am not getting treated & suppose so long as this stuff ain't hurting you it's okay....why don't I trust the medical profession, nothing ever seems to be transparent with them and just sometimes they feel like the enemy....guess the virus is making me paranoid!
suziq said
Oct 22, 2014
Hi Brian,
Your info on pomegranate is probably why Merck put it on the forbidden food list for my trial. They did not want to skew the results of the trial. I took alternatives for years before doing the clinical trial. They did not stop the progression into cirrhosis, but, except for fatigue, I suffered few side effects from my Hep C. And my viral load was only 800,000 going into the trial. And my enzymes were near normal until the last year. Then not above 100. I had Hep C for close to 50 years.
I have not read about reversal of cirrhosis after SVR and alternative supplements. Hep Tech claimed to reverse cirrhosis before treatment, but I didn't try their protocol. Don't have a local doctor that tests much more than very basic stuff--like to see if I am still alive. LOL
SuziQ
Brian1412 said
Oct 22, 2014
I have also been told to drink aloe Jusice for the Ulcers... so far pretty good.
Brian1412 said
Oct 22, 2014
I was informed by serveral Drs that pomegranate juices are great for the liver and particularly Hep C .. They told me that one of the active ingredients is actually in heavy research to be a drug for Hep C.
I have been drinking it daily, and feel some " relief" in my liver. Anyone know anything about this?
Luckydog1953 said
Aug 12, 2014
Chris,
HCV-infection depletes vitamin D, exacerbating the problems associated with vitamin D resistance in the general population at-large that are currently puzzling the medical experts.
Mike
Matt Chris said
Jul 24, 2014
I concur as well Isiscat, taken in correct absorbable amounts supplements can help fight the battle of the energy sucker HCV.
The vitamin D supplement discussion still has not been made totally clear yet. I am totally convinced that most North Americans that live in a region where winter time does not allow them to receive the proper amount of sunlight can have a Vit. D deficiency. The part that is unclear is how to make up the deficiency? Can vit. D3 really do it, or should we be downing cod liver oil and eating sardines. Any thought on what supplement can do the best, because I am certian that I feel a whole lot better in the summer than the winter even with Vit. D3 supplements.
matt
Luckydog1953 said
Jul 24, 2014
I agree, eradication is the primary objective. The new drugs should be everyone's priority, I think.
That being said, I like that supplements and liver antioxidant mix that you mentioned Isiscat. The B vitamins and CoQ10 are mitochondrial nutrients so they are actually supposed to boost energy through mitochondrial support (FDA-approved claim). And those are very hepato-friendly herbs.The probiotics are very important and HCV patient and cirrhotics run short on Vitamin D.
Huey said
Jul 22, 2014
There is nothing on this planet that offers the amazing variety of healing benefits granted by aloe vera. In a single plant, aloe vera offers potent, natural medicine that:
Halts the growth of cancer tumors. Lowers high cholesterol. Repairs "sludge blood" and reverses "sticky blood". Boosts the oxygenation of your blood. Eases inflammation and soothes arthritis pain. Protects the body from oxidative stress. Prevents kidney stones and protects the body from oxalates in coffee and tea. Alkalizes the body, helping to balance overly acidic dietary habits. Cures ulcers, IBS, Crohn's disease and other digestive disorders. Reduces high blood pressure natural, by treating the cause, not just the symptoms. Nourishes the body with minerals, vitamins, enzymes and glyconutrients. Accelerates healing from physical burns and radiation burns. Replaces dozens of first aid products, makes bandages and antibacterial sprays obsolete. Halts colon cancer, heals the intestines and lubricates the digestive tract. Ends constipation. Stabilizes blood sugar and reduces triglycerides in diabetics. Prevents and treats candida infections. Protects the kidneys from disease. Functions as nature's own "sports drink" for electrolyte balance, making common sports drinks obsolete. Boosts cardiovascular performance and physical endurance. Speeds recovery from injury or physical exertion. Hydrates the skin, accelerates skin repair.
For me personally, the jury is still out on supplements, although antioxidants appear to be safe enough that I have bought into taking them. Here is a list of the supplements I take:
I have actually noticed a positive difference with taking CoQ10 (increased energy) and Probiotic (better digestion).
As for the others I don't know. My HepC is alive and well and my liver fibrosis has not halted. I also eat healthy, exercise moderately, and do not use alcohol or drugs.
IMHO, the best thing we can do with the HepC virus is get rid of it. Anything short of that appears unlikely to make a substantial difference in the long term.
Luckydog1953 said
Jul 22, 2014
There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding antioxidants and how they work. I thought I might present the science of HCV and oxidative stress.
Redox in Normal Metabolism
Inflammation is a separate and distinctly different biochemical process than Oxidative Stress, although they often occur together, especially in HCV. A study showed that in HCV, oxidative stress in the absence of inflammation promotes cancer HCC. This means that even without elevated liver enzymes showing, oxidative stress may be high and undetected and may be promoting carcinogenesis.
So then, what is Oxidative Stress?
In normal metabolism Oxidative Stress is created when free radicals, or Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) escape from the mitochondria in our cells.
Let me explain that: the mitochondria is where our cells burn (oxidize) glucose and convert it into CO2 and water for energy. As the mitochondria breaks the chemical bonds of the glucose/pyruvate molecule and harnesses the energy in ATP, each successive form of the molecular remnants are called Reactive Oxygen Species (or free radicals) and there are about five distinct species of ROS that are created, and escape from the mitochondria.
When I say escape, I mean that in normal metabolism 2-3% of the ROS species created manage to leak out of the mitochondrial membrane into the cytosol, or cytoplasm inside the cell. The body has created specific antioxidant enzymes to quench these specific oxygen free radicals. These enzymes are reducing agents and our body creates a specific enzyme for each specific ROS species. For instance, the body creates the enzyme Superoxide Dismutase to quench the free radical Superoxide. It creates the enzyme Catalase to quench the free radical Hydrogen Peroxide, and on and on for each of the free radical ROS species.
The balance between our bodys reducing agents (antioxidants) and our boys oxidizing agents (free radicals, or ROS) is called Redox, and our bodies like to keep our Redox levels in normal range, a process called called homeostasis. Many biochemicals in our bodies are reversibly oxidized, and this system is used in normal cell signaling (see disulfide bonds in proteins). When Oxidative Stress becomes extreme, certain mechanisms are triggered - free radical oxidants hitting our DNA trigger a gene switch to create more Glutathione. This is important because Glutathione is the bodys master antioxidant molecule and our bodys natural response to oxidative stress. Glutathione runs many different antioxidant systems in our bodies, recharging vitamins c and maintaining the system of non-enzymatic small molecule antioxidants, controlling the thioredoxin/glutaredoxin antioxidant systems, influencing the methothioadenosine antioxidant system, etc.
Botanical polyphenols (flavonoids, terpenes, etc.) work as single direct reducing agents when they directly quench free radicals. However, their main course of action is to hit the DNA and trigger more Glutathione production (and other reducing antioxidant enzyme production through activation of the Nrf2 gene).
Redox under HCV infection Oxidative Stress triggers Fibrogenesis
HCV creates EXTREME Oxidative Stress. It does this in a number of ways, but the significance of this is that extreme Oxidative Stress triggers normally quiet cells in the liver, called Stellate Cells to change. What they change into is a different type of cell called a Myofibroblast, and these are the critters that secrete collagen, or scar tissue in our HCV-infected livers. These myofibroblasts deposit collagen in all the extracellular spaces in our livers, around the sinusoids and the blood vessels, lymph vessels and bile ducts. These collagen fibers are actually what are called actin fibers, which are contractile proteins (our muscles are made of the contractile proteins actin and myosin). Well the scar tissue (actin) clamps down on the vessels in our liver, constricting blood flow into the liver and bile flow out.
In normal conditions a third of our blood at any one time is flowing through our hepatic portal vein, the main network of blood vessels that bring blood and food from our digestive tract straight to our liver for digestion, absorption and assimilation. However, when blood flow is constricted in the liver, it causes problems, and a lot of it is simple fluid mechanics. The blood backs up and the serum separates and falls out into the GI cavity, a condition called Ascites. Blood flow backs up from the veins running into the neck as well and cirrhotic patients often bleed from their Esophageal Varices in their necks.
The liver has an enormous capacity to heal, but reproducing liver cells is not the problem, it is finding real estate in the liver that is not taken up by scar tissue that is the problem. Eventually, in End Stage Liver Disease (ESLD) the liver looks shrunken, and resembles an old leather shoe sole, with not many living cells in it, but a lot of scar tissue, which has proliferated until it squeezed all the living cells out of the liver.
HCV creates Oxidative Stress by several methods:
· * HCV hijacks about five or six different biosynthetic pathways so that it can create material for its own life-cycle needs, but the most significant HCV-induced metabolic change is to the Glutathione biosynthetic pathway. HCV induces decreased levels of Glutathione production, and that is bad for Redox homeostasis. HCV-infection also affects the Methothioadenosine biosynthetic pathway, which is a separate and distinct antioxidant system.
· * HCV sets up replication nest or rafts in the mitochondrial envelope where the mitochondrial membrane meets the endoplasmic reticulum. These replication sites, or rafts physically tear holes in the mitochondrial membrane, allowing ROS species to leak out. This has a multiplier effect on free radical-generated Oxidative Stress. HCV also works to degrade the mitochondrial membrane. This effort is aided in the fact that HCV also hijacks both Phosphatidylcholine (PC) biosynthetic pathways. Phosphatidylcholine is the phospholipid that makes up 80% of our membrane phospholipids, so decreased production of PC has negative effects on all our cell membranes, including outer cell membranes and intracellular organelle membranes like gogi, mitochondria, endoplasmic reticulum, peroxisomes, etc.
· * HCV infects non-liver white blood cells called macrophages and liver-based kupffer cells which infiltrate the liver in the spaces where necrosis (unprogrammed cell death) occurs. These macrophages are similarly affected by mitochondrial degradation and these white cells spill tremendous amounts of ROS free radicals into the extracellular spaces of the liver. The extreme oxidative stress activates the stellate cells and interacts with the inflammatory process to create a whole messy area called inflammatory infiltrate. These are the spaces that fibrosis advances first, and extreme Oxidative Stress, combined with flying cytokines and inflammatory mediators create a boiling stew in these spaces.
· * HCV also induces the impairment of Beta Oxidation of fatty acids in the cells. It does this by reducing the amount of L-carnitine produced. L-carnitine escorts fatty acids to the mitochondrial for burning for energy. When this process is impaired it can lead to a condition called steatosis, or fatty liver. Fatty Liver also creates oxidative stress, and this leads to further activation of Stellate Cells.
There is an important point of to be made regarding Oxidative Stress-mediated Fibrogenesis. Fibrogenesis is a separate process and NOT a direct action of the HCV virus. HCV, HBV, alcohol abuse, Steatosis, and hepatotoxic pharmaceutical drugs may all create extreme Oxidative Stress and trigger the process of Fibrogenesis.
That being said, the reasonable method to deal with the pathology of HCV and the metabolic changes induced in the host is to bolster the metabolic pathways that HCV alters. In other words, to try to correct those HCV-induced metabolic alterations by oral supplementation of added nutrient metabolites into the HCV-altered biosynthetic pathways. Since HCV creates oxidative setress through chantges in the metabolome, then it makes sense to bolster those affected biosynthetic pathways in order to re-establish redox homeostasis.
When I did my clinical study for Merck, they had pomegranates on the forbidden list of foods during the trial. Guess they did not want anything to interfere with the validity of the study. Now I know why pomegranates were forbidden. That study, C-Worthy, had excellent SVR rates. Unfortunately, they probably won't get FDA approval until mid 2015.
I did antioxidants over the years and went into my study (with cirrhosis) with only 800,000 viral load and enzymes under 100. My Hep C did not bother me much over the years. I do believe supplements help with liver health.
SuziQ
Interesting. Thanks for the article!
"Researchers at the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) in Bangalore found that three compounds in pomegranate (punicalin, punicalagin and ellagic acid), suppresses the Hepatitis C virus. More specifically, these three pomegranate compounds found in the fruits peel successfully inhibit the NS3 protease enzyme in Hepatitis C."
I have been eating/drinking pomegranate for years. I make the jelly every year. Maybe it's contributed to my low VL. The pith is pretty nasty stuff, but next time I make pomegranate jelly, I'll boil the peel with the seeds. I also took milk thistle for a while which hopefully helped.
I was low Vit D, too. They had me take megadoses of D before I started treatment.
I start my day with 6 to 8 oz. of pomegranate juice. I had borderline high blood pressure 2 years ago and my PCP put me on Lisinopril. I was not overweight, exercised, had a decent diet and watched my sodium intake. I'm now Hep C free, no longer have hbp and don't have to take Lisinopril. I noticed a modest decline in hbp within a couple weeks of regularly drinking pomegranate juice, even before I started S/O tx last January.
pomegranate juice... http://www.hepatitiscentral.com/mt/archives/2014/08/new-research-finds-pomegranates-help-battle-hepatitis-c.html
I had a expert gastro friend from Ohio state say that this is one area they are starting to research big time to treat Hep C
GG, my hangout was from Matanzas Inlet north to St. Augustine. I saw a Hansen 50-50 for sale not too long ago at $1,200. There are a few toys from our youth that we wish we had kept over the years. I mentioned to my wife one time about buying a vintage board; I got the stare as a reply.
In the surf mode, I'll keep sending "Good Vibrations" to anyone still fighting this disease. All you pre-SVRs will be SVRs in the near future!
-- Edited by Gator Man on Thursday 23rd of October 2014 07:03:22 PM
I'm Vitamin D deficient also...Last month my Dr. told me to take 2,000 i.u./day
G man my wife and I were both the surfers in the younger days. Grew up on the beach in Daytona. Had the nice Hansen 50-50 wish I still had it. My skin looks very much like that of the little fella you used to hold in your hands. Back in the pre- SVR
days. I currently take a multi vitamin, B-complex and B12 but never have had levels tested. Thanks for continuing to hang out with us pre-svr folks. The good vibes go a long way
Thanks for passing along the info Gator Man. The article mentioned how VitaminD helped with IFN treatment. Wonder if it is true for DAAs? Guess I'll find out once I board the Harvoni train. I will ask about retesting in a month. Five thousand IUs seems like a lot, but the pharmacist also agreed with the dosages.
And Isiscat, when I get home from visiting family in Arizona, I feel dessicated, like a slug left on the sidewalk in the sun! It takes weeks to feel rehydrated. But I wouldn't want to live anywhere else than the Pacific NW.
-- Edited by Mugsy on Wednesday 22nd of October 2014 10:49:41 PM
Since I left Florida and surfing at the age of 22, I would say that my skin resembles the loafers in the back of the closet more than the army boots out in the garage-old is relative!
Malcolm posted this back in January with an attached article regarding vitamin D and liver disease:
Vitamin D and HepC are contentious issues. The generally accepted normal levels are 40-80 ng/ml. Most Vitamin D is obtained from sun exposure, and most agree that a low level like yours, should be treated with supplements. Obviously you are not getting enough sun, so the standard daily dose to get to acceptable levels is 5,000 i.u./day. Some will say that's too much, and only take 2,000 i.u./day. The only way to be sure is to get the test repeated after a month.
Vitamin D is essential for bone health, and deficiency has been reported to be associated with increased liver fibrosis, and poor response to Interferon treatment. Here's one link.
http://www.journal-of-hepatology.eu/article/S0168-8278%2812%2900602-2/fulltext
Me too, Mugsy. The upside is that you probably have really nice skin. I grew up in California and some of the people I know who stayed there have skin like old shoes now.
I've been taking 1000 IU daily for maybe 2 years--can't remember when I started--and my levels are close to normal now. The cirrhosis can make the situation worse but so many non-cirrhotics who live in sunshine deprived areas are Vit D deficient too.
Last week, my hepatologist ordered a Vitamin D test for me. Mine came back @ 17.9, so I am on 5000IU of D3 daily for 2 months then a maintenance dose of 2000IU afterwards. Seems like a big dose to me, but I do trust my doctor. Had no idea my cirrhotic liver could not process well enough to extract Vitamin D anymore.
I live in the Pacific NW and grow moss on my northside due to no sunshine during the fall/ winter.
At my last followup at 26 weeks EOT, vitamin D came back at 38.1 ng/ml. It has been in the normal range for the last few months. I've been taking 3,000 and then 2,000 IU/day of vitamin D3 since the start of tx because of vitamin D deficiency. After the last test, the doctor lowered the daily amount to 1,000 IU.
I certainly don't get the amount of sunlight exposure that I had growing up in Florida and probably shouldn't at this point. Diet alone will not be adequate to resolve a deficiency. If otc vitamin D3 supplements had not worked, the doctor was going to prescribe something to presumably increase absorption. This is not as significant of an issue for those who don't have liver disease, even without adequate sunlight or nutrition intake.
I have been spending a fortune in the health food shop..Milk thistle, Alpha lipoic acid, Selenium, Omega 3....the list goes on, but my consultant says,"don't waste your money"! But what are we to do? I feel like I should do something as I am not getting treated & suppose so long as this stuff ain't hurting you it's okay....why don't I trust the medical profession, nothing ever seems to be transparent with them and just sometimes they feel like the enemy....guess the virus is making me paranoid!
Hi Brian,
Your info on pomegranate is probably why Merck put it on the forbidden food list for my trial. They did not want to skew the results of the trial. I took alternatives for years before doing the clinical trial. They did not stop the progression into cirrhosis, but, except for fatigue, I suffered few side effects from my Hep C. And my viral load was only 800,000 going into the trial. And my enzymes were near normal until the last year. Then not above 100. I had Hep C for close to 50 years.
I have not read about reversal of cirrhosis after SVR and alternative supplements. Hep Tech claimed to reverse cirrhosis before treatment, but I didn't try their protocol. Don't have a local doctor that tests much more than very basic stuff--like to see if I am still alive. LOL
SuziQ
I have also been told to drink aloe Jusice for the Ulcers... so far pretty good.
I was informed by serveral Drs that pomegranate juices are great for the liver and particularly Hep C .. They told me that one of the active ingredients is actually in heavy research to be a drug for Hep C.
I have been drinking it daily, and feel some " relief" in my liver. Anyone know anything about this?
Chris,
HCV-infection depletes vitamin D, exacerbating the problems associated with vitamin D resistance in the general population at-large that are currently puzzling the medical experts.
Mike
I concur as well Isiscat, taken in correct absorbable amounts supplements can help fight the battle of the energy sucker HCV.
The vitamin D supplement discussion still has not been made totally clear yet. I am totally convinced that most North Americans that live in a region where winter time does not allow them to receive the proper amount of sunlight can have a Vit. D deficiency. The part that is unclear is how to make up the deficiency? Can vit. D3 really do it, or should we be downing cod liver oil and eating sardines. Any thought on what supplement can do the best, because I am certian that I feel a whole lot better in the summer than the winter even with Vit. D3 supplements.
matt
I agree, eradication is the primary objective. The new drugs should be everyone's priority, I think.
That being said, I like that supplements and liver antioxidant mix that you mentioned Isiscat. The B vitamins and CoQ10 are mitochondrial nutrients so they are actually supposed to boost energy through mitochondrial support (FDA-approved claim). And those are very hepato-friendly herbs.The probiotics are very important and HCV patient and cirrhotics run short on Vitamin D.
There is nothing on this planet that offers the amazing variety of healing benefits granted by aloe vera. In a single plant, aloe vera offers potent, natural medicine that:
Halts the growth of cancer tumors.
Lowers high cholesterol.
Repairs "sludge blood" and reverses "sticky blood".
Boosts the oxygenation of your blood.
Eases inflammation and soothes arthritis pain.
Protects the body from oxidative stress.
Prevents kidney stones and protects the body from oxalates in coffee and tea.
Alkalizes the body, helping to balance overly acidic dietary habits.
Cures ulcers, IBS, Crohn's disease and other digestive disorders.
Reduces high blood pressure natural, by treating the cause, not just the symptoms.
Nourishes the body with minerals, vitamins, enzymes and glyconutrients.
Accelerates healing from physical burns and radiation burns.
Replaces dozens of first aid products, makes bandages and antibacterial sprays obsolete.
Halts colon cancer, heals the intestines and lubricates the digestive tract.
Ends constipation.
Stabilizes blood sugar and reduces triglycerides in diabetics.
Prevents and treats candida infections.
Protects the kidneys from disease.
Functions as nature's own "sports drink" for electrolyte balance, making common sports drinks obsolete.
Boosts cardiovascular performance and physical endurance.
Speeds recovery from injury or physical exertion.
Hydrates the skin, accelerates skin repair.
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/021858_aloe_vera_gel.html#ixzz38F1osy8e
For me personally, the jury is still out on supplements, although antioxidants appear to be safe enough that I have bought into taking them. Here is a list of the supplements I take:
1) Vitamin D (because I have a deficiency)
2) CoQ10
3) Fish Oil (Omega-3)
4) Liver Antioxidant (contains B6,B12, Milk Thistle, Folic Acid,Pantothenic Acid, Turmeric, Artichoke)
5) Probiotic
I have actually noticed a positive difference with taking CoQ10 (increased energy) and Probiotic (better digestion).
As for the others I don't know. My HepC is alive and well and my liver fibrosis has not halted. I also eat healthy, exercise moderately, and do not use alcohol or drugs.
IMHO, the best thing we can do with the HepC virus is get rid of it. Anything short of that appears unlikely to make a substantial difference in the long term.
There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding antioxidants and how they work. I thought I might present the science of HCV and oxidative stress.
Redox in Normal Metabolism
Inflammation is a separate and distinctly different biochemical process than Oxidative Stress, although they often occur together, especially in HCV. A study showed that in HCV, oxidative stress in the absence of inflammation promotes cancer HCC. This means that even without elevated liver enzymes showing, oxidative stress may be high and undetected and may be promoting carcinogenesis.
So then, what is Oxidative Stress?
In normal metabolism Oxidative Stress is created when free radicals, or Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) escape from the mitochondria in our cells.
Let me explain that: the mitochondria is where our cells burn (oxidize) glucose and convert it into CO2 and water for energy. As the mitochondria breaks the chemical bonds of the glucose/pyruvate molecule and harnesses the energy in ATP, each successive form of the molecular remnants are called Reactive Oxygen Species (or free radicals) and there are about five distinct species of ROS that are created, and escape from the mitochondria.
When I say escape, I mean that in normal metabolism 2-3% of the ROS species created manage to leak out of the mitochondrial membrane into the cytosol, or cytoplasm inside the cell. The body has created specific antioxidant enzymes to quench these specific oxygen free radicals. These enzymes are reducing agents and our body creates a specific enzyme for each specific ROS species. For instance, the body creates the enzyme Superoxide Dismutase to quench the free radical Superoxide. It creates the enzyme Catalase to quench the free radical Hydrogen Peroxide, and on and on for each of the free radical ROS species.
The balance between our bodys reducing agents (antioxidants) and our boys oxidizing agents (free radicals, or ROS) is called Redox, and our bodies like to keep our Redox levels in normal range, a process called called homeostasis. Many biochemicals in our bodies are reversibly oxidized, and this system is used in normal cell signaling (see disulfide bonds in proteins). When Oxidative Stress becomes extreme, certain mechanisms are triggered - free radical oxidants hitting our DNA trigger a gene switch to create more Glutathione. This is important because Glutathione is the bodys master antioxidant molecule and our bodys natural response to oxidative stress. Glutathione runs many different antioxidant systems in our bodies, recharging vitamins c and maintaining the system of non-enzymatic small molecule antioxidants, controlling the thioredoxin/glutaredoxin antioxidant systems, influencing the methothioadenosine antioxidant system, etc.
Botanical polyphenols (flavonoids, terpenes, etc.) work as single direct reducing agents when they directly quench free radicals. However, their main course of action is to hit the DNA and trigger more Glutathione production (and other reducing antioxidant enzyme production through activation of the Nrf2 gene).
Redox under HCV infection Oxidative Stress triggers Fibrogenesis
HCV creates EXTREME Oxidative Stress. It does this in a number of ways, but the significance of this is that extreme Oxidative Stress triggers normally quiet cells in the liver, called Stellate Cells to change. What they change into is a different type of cell called a Myofibroblast, and these are the critters that secrete collagen, or scar tissue in our HCV-infected livers. These myofibroblasts deposit collagen in all the extracellular spaces in our livers, around the sinusoids and the blood vessels, lymph vessels and bile ducts. These collagen fibers are actually what are called actin fibers, which are contractile proteins (our muscles are made of the contractile proteins actin and myosin). Well the scar tissue (actin) clamps down on the vessels in our liver, constricting blood flow into the liver and bile flow out.
In normal conditions a third of our blood at any one time is flowing through our hepatic portal vein, the main network of blood vessels that bring blood and food from our digestive tract straight to our liver for digestion, absorption and assimilation. However, when blood flow is constricted in the liver, it causes problems, and a lot of it is simple fluid mechanics. The blood backs up and the serum separates and falls out into the GI cavity, a condition called Ascites. Blood flow backs up from the veins running into the neck as well and cirrhotic patients often bleed from their Esophageal Varices in their necks.
The liver has an enormous capacity to heal, but reproducing liver cells is not the problem, it is finding real estate in the liver that is not taken up by scar tissue that is the problem. Eventually, in End Stage Liver Disease (ESLD) the liver looks shrunken, and resembles an old leather shoe sole, with not many living cells in it, but a lot of scar tissue, which has proliferated until it squeezed all the living cells out of the liver.
HCV creates Oxidative Stress by several methods:
· * HCV hijacks about five or six different biosynthetic pathways so that it can create material for its own life-cycle needs, but the most significant HCV-induced metabolic change is to the Glutathione biosynthetic pathway. HCV induces decreased levels of Glutathione production, and that is bad for Redox homeostasis. HCV-infection also affects the Methothioadenosine biosynthetic pathway, which is a separate and distinct antioxidant system.
· * HCV sets up replication nest or rafts in the mitochondrial envelope where the mitochondrial membrane meets the endoplasmic reticulum. These replication sites, or rafts physically tear holes in the mitochondrial membrane, allowing ROS species to leak out. This has a multiplier effect on free radical-generated Oxidative Stress. HCV also works to degrade the mitochondrial membrane. This effort is aided in the fact that HCV also hijacks both Phosphatidylcholine (PC) biosynthetic pathways. Phosphatidylcholine is the phospholipid that makes up 80% of our membrane phospholipids, so decreased production of PC has negative effects on all our cell membranes, including outer cell membranes and intracellular organelle membranes like gogi, mitochondria, endoplasmic reticulum, peroxisomes, etc.
· * HCV infects non-liver white blood cells called macrophages and liver-based kupffer cells which infiltrate the liver in the spaces where necrosis (unprogrammed cell death) occurs. These macrophages are similarly affected by mitochondrial degradation and these white cells spill tremendous amounts of ROS free radicals into the extracellular spaces of the liver. The extreme oxidative stress activates the stellate cells and interacts with the inflammatory process to create a whole messy area called inflammatory infiltrate. These are the spaces that fibrosis advances first, and extreme Oxidative Stress, combined with flying cytokines and inflammatory mediators create a boiling stew in these spaces.
· * HCV also induces the impairment of Beta Oxidation of fatty acids in the cells. It does this by reducing the amount of L-carnitine produced. L-carnitine escorts fatty acids to the mitochondrial for burning for energy. When this process is impaired it can lead to a condition called steatosis, or fatty liver. Fatty Liver also creates oxidative stress, and this leads to further activation of Stellate Cells.
There is an important point of to be made regarding Oxidative Stress-mediated Fibrogenesis. Fibrogenesis is a separate process and NOT a direct action of the HCV virus. HCV, HBV, alcohol abuse, Steatosis, and hepatotoxic pharmaceutical drugs may all create extreme Oxidative Stress and trigger the process of Fibrogenesis.
That being said, the reasonable method to deal with the pathology of HCV and the metabolic changes induced in the host is to bolster the metabolic pathways that HCV alters. In other words, to try to correct those HCV-induced metabolic alterations by oral supplementation of added nutrient metabolites into the HCV-altered biosynthetic pathways. Since HCV creates oxidative setress through chantges in the metabolome, then it makes sense to bolster those affected biosynthetic pathways in order to re-establish redox homeostasis.