When you drink wine, beer what-ever, your liver enzymes go up and fall out of ratio. As we know the rise in ATL's do not have any thing to do with VL. In other words drinking does not cause your viral load to go up so a relapse from drinking is not vary probable.
LC said
Oct 11, 2014
Well Josh, I am already planning my next drink too. I don't have cirrhosis, and unless I am advised by my doctor to never drink again, I don't see why I can't enjoy a glass of wine or two of an evening. It's a small pleasure, and we all have our vices. I figure you are either cured or not. I doubt if I am ever really cured, that the moderate drinking I've been guilty of in the past is going to result in a reinfection for me. I certainly won't drink during treatment.
wmlj1960 said
Sep 25, 2014
Dzdayscomin wrote: Plus its fun to watch the drunk people even if they are friends...lol
Not me. I find it irritating some of the time and it makes me feel sorry for all those people who put up with my drunk a$$ all those years.
Dzdayscomin said
Sep 25, 2014
Tig56 wrote:
Hi Cathy,
Congratulations on your good, no... great! news!! I wish you continued great news and hopes for a fabulous Italian celebration!
I posted this in a different thread, and thought we had posted here too, but I fail to see it anywhere. It's a good booster site for those that have thoughts and questions on future ETOH use and abuse. I recommend anyone that reads into it to search the available references listed. This site, along with the references offer viewpoints for both sides of the issue. Your statement that we "own" the decisions we make, is spot on and so accurate! Best of luck to all...
Tig
Good read Tig, I think the best part is why risk it, have an odooles because 1 beer ain't gonna get ya where you want to go anyway, and after one the next 3-4 come to easy because it's just enough to impair better judgement.
Im a never ever again guy so it's easy for me to say nope! Plus its fun to watch the drunk people even if they are friends...lol
Josh Haynie said
Sep 24, 2014
excellent insights .......... little surprised this thread is still going
glad everyone is doing good....
Tig said
Sep 23, 2014
Hi Cathy,
Congratulations on your good, no... great! news!! I wish you continued great news and hopes for a fabulous Italian celebration!
I posted this in a different thread, and thought we had posted here too, but I fail to see it anywhere. It's a good booster site for those that have thoughts and questions on future ETOH use and abuse. I recommend anyone that reads into it to search the available references listed. This site, along with the references offer viewpoints for both sides of the issue. Your statement that we "own" the decisions we make, is spot on and so accurate! Best of luck to all...
Tig
anurse1985 said
Sep 23, 2014
I'm planning a trip to Italy in May; and WILL be having a glass of vino with my pasta, and an espresso with my Zepolli too! My days of alcohol over indulgence are long passed; partly because of the HCV but mostly because I grew up and found better things to do the day after a "party" than battling a hangover.
Having said that, I think you still need to enjoy life and the decisions you make you own.
But...
Great News! Just got the email from my NP. UNDETECTED!!! 2.5 more weeks of drugs and then of course f/u 12 weeks after that. But this news, and your most positive responses, have lifted my spirits. Now...I'm going to unglue my ass from this office chair and step out into this sunny fall day and BREATHE.
:)
Isiscat2011 said
Sep 23, 2014
tgcd78 wrote:
While I agree with the many reasons not to drink I can also see what Josh is trying to say. I'm young and most of my friends are single and alcohol is a part of our social lives. I drank regularly before treatment, I had a very high viral load due to it, but I was fortunate enough not to have liver damage. Alcohol was very easy to give up for treatment. I don't see myself ever having the same relationship with it because I know I don't need it. I am kicking this disease in its ass (svr 4 as of this morning) and when I reach SVR 12 I don't see why a glass of wine on special occasions is so faux pas. Tell me alcohol will bring the HepC back and then I will reconsider.
No one can predict the future damage drinking will do so if you want an absolute you will never find it. There is no consensus at this point that drinking alcohol in moderation will absolutely reactivate the HCV virus but I wouldn't consider taking the chance, regardless of my age, knowing what I know about the precarious nature of HCV as well as the precarious nature of alcohol and of human beings.
This may be offensive to some, but IMO, the only reason anyone would consider continuing to drink alcohol is because they have a dependency on alcohol that they may not wish to acknowledge. I know this because I have a dependency/addiction to tobacco and, while I have cut back to about 25% of my previous smoking, I still haven't stopped. When someone who has/had HCV tells me they will continue drinking, but only in moderation, it raises a big red flag that they have a significant emotional dependence on alcohol because logic certainly tells them not to take the chance. Something to consider, particularly with alcohol, which impairs judgment and can lead to drinking more than one intended to.
Not only does the potential exist that alcohol may reactivate the virus but also consider the liver damage. Accurately assessing liver damage is very difficult in reality because all diagnostic methods have significant error margins. Liver damage will continue with alcohol consumption. Many Hepatologists advise complete abstinence from alcohol for all HCV patients for this and other reasons.
-- Edited by Isiscat2011 on Tuesday 23rd of September 2014 06:16:05 PM
Dzdayscomin said
Sep 23, 2014
If you don't have Cirrhosis and you clear the hep C I don't think you will find one Hepatologist that would say an occasional drink is taboo, the people that need to worry about it is those that either have severe liver damage ( like me) or a substance abuse problem.
Duane
tgcd78 said
Sep 23, 2014
While I agree with the many reasons not to drink I can also see what Josh is trying to say. I'm young and most of my friends are single and alcohol is a part of our social lives. I drank regularly before treatment, I had a very high viral load due to it, but I was fortunate enough not to have liver damage. Alcohol was very easy to give up for treatment. I don't see myself ever having the same relationship with it because I know I don't need it. I am kicking this disease in its ass (svr 4 as of this morning) and when I reach SVR 12 I don't see why a glass of wine on special occasions is so faux pas. Tell me alcohol will bring the HepC back and then I will reconsider.
Paul B said
Sep 17, 2014
Tig56 wrote:
Doing anything that subjects the body to undue stress and strain can have adverse effects on all body systems. Best to do absolutely everything you can to avoid undue stresses on any system.
Tig
Yea I was thinking about that. I came to the conclusion that when I achieve SVR that I will no longer cycle 300kms per week as it places too much stress on the system. Look at the riders on the pro tour. Super fit but you continually hear of them pulling out of races due to health issues. Immune system just can't handle the load.Maybe 100kms per week max for me.
Cheers,
Paul
Groupergetter said
Sep 10, 2014
Even though I didn't reach SVR, every morning when I got up, looked at, and swallowed the pills that cost around $2000.00 I considered how fortunate and Thankful I was to have the opportunity to clear this virus. Knowing I have liver issues, I owe it to those who care about me to try and do my best to be there for them. I have many fond memories of great parties and good times with alcohol. Now I have to live with the cirrhotic liver and associated health problems knowing I contributed to them. It is a proven fact that alcohol destroys the liver. To coin a phrase, " a fool and his health are soon parted"
My friends all tell me, that I've been such a fool, And I have to stand back and take it babe, all for lovin' you. And I drown myself in sorrow, as I look at what you've done But nothin' seems to change, the bad times stay the same And I can't run. Some times I feel, whoa babe, sometimes I feel, like I've been tied to the whipping post.
Greg Allman a neighbor from the past. Allman Bros Band Live at the Fillmore East.
We can't change the past, but we can through our choices, affect our lives and the lives of others.
hrsetrdr said
Sep 10, 2014
^^what Tig said. After tx with peg/ifn + Riba + Victrelis and all the misery plus post tx issues I'd never consider risking/throwing away my SVR for anything whatsoever.
Tig said
Sep 10, 2014
If people could understand this one statement, it would serve everyone well. That is to understand that SVR (Sustained Viral Response) is just that, sustained. Your body sustains it but I think using "maintained" might actually be more accurate. Once your body has achieved SVR, which is now considered an undetectable viral load 12 weeks after the end of treatment (EOT +12). The word cured should be used very loosely. Nowhere does SVR list a 100% cure of HCV, most will use a chance of relapse of <1%. SVR is basically the body's ability to utilize it's own immune system to keep the virus at an undetectable level. <5-15 copies IU/ml. An iimmune system crisis could weaken it (your immune system) to such a degree, that viral replication once again overwhelms your immune system, resulting in HCV viral relapse. Doing anything that subjects the body to undue stress and strain can have adverse effects on all body systems. Best to do absolutely everything you can to avoid undue stresses on any system. Best to consider SVR as a potentially fragile state and serving up a beer in a crystal glass that might shatter, is a risk you may not want to take... Just food for thought.
Tig
Josh Haynie said
Sep 10, 2014
Excellent responses :) very REAL and honest.....
Ive been where youve been ...
Glad were here together ....
Turn the Page :) Bob Seager or metallica.......
Scruffy said
Sep 10, 2014
wmlj1960 wrote:
Thanks Duane, but if you were to spend some time with me living life, you would see that I'm not always very inspirational and my outlook gets pretty crappy at times. But that's what happens when you live 40+ years wide open party then wake up / sober up to these consequences.
There's nothing I can do about that now except move on with what I have left. But I have enough experience with it all that I can share with the younger crowd who are going through what I did and hopefully say something that will prevent them from trashing their body as bad as I did.
The way I see it, if I can help save a life through my experience, then it makes my mistakes somehow be well worth it.
I just hope Josh or someone else will learn from my mistakes like I did not do from those the that went before me.
Amen to that.
Dzdayscomin said
Sep 10, 2014
There comes a point where your next breath means a lot more than your next beer.
You make that point very eloquently.
wmlj1960 said
Sep 10, 2014
Thanks Duane, but if you were to spend some time with me living life, you would see that I'm not always very inspirational and my outlook gets pretty crappy at times. But that's what happens when you live 40+ years wide open party then wake up / sober up to these consequences.
There's nothing I can do about that now except move on with what I have left. But I have enough experience with it all that I can share with the younger crowd who are going through what I did and hopefully say something that will prevent them from trashing their body as bad as I did.
The way I see it, if I can help save a life through my experience, then it makes my mistakes somehow be well worth it.
I just hope Josh or someone else will learn from my mistakes like I did not do from those the that went before me.
Dzdayscomin said
Sep 10, 2014
Mike, that was an awesome post, it is as true sounding as if really came directly from your heart and soul, you have some extreme challanges but about the best outlook of anyone I know of, you will and are an inspiration to many.
All I can say is well done...bravo!
Duane
wmlj1960 said
Sep 10, 2014
Josh Haynie wrote:i monitor everything so much that if beer after SVR damages me or produces a viral count i will indeed stop .....
Hi Josh.
Whether to drink or not when / if I acheive SVR is something that has crossed my mind. But it didn't cross it for long before I had my answer. And as a result of plenty of experience in making bad choices for myself, I have learned to base my answer on true experience. And my experience is that last time I monitored my liver damage resulting from drinking alcohol, I monitored it right up into Methodist University Hospital ER via ambulance for an exciting, very costly thorough round of procedures that produced indisputable evidence that I'm not very good at monitoring my liver.
And I have plenty of indisputable evidence that I am very efficient and thorough at trashing my liver, and that didn't take any hi-tech machines, but it is proving to be the most costly mistake I ever made.
So I got my answer, and when my mind tries to rationalize and justify a good reason why i can continue to drink alcohol, I have the facts to look at and a choice to make. I've been making the right choice since January and I pray that I continue to. I have no doubt that I've got a good drunk left in me, but I'm also convinced I don't have a snowballs chance in hell of sobering up again in time to live.
So for me: to drink alcohol is to die. And I agree with beingsassy today: Life spent in sobriety can be so wonderful, so why would taking a chance on screwing that up in favor of drinking a beer even cross my mind in the first place.
It's also not my right to judge, so I can only offer my experience as an example of how not to do it, just like many others that had been down this road before had offered to me, although I didn't apply any of their experience toward my life.
My monitoring of my liver got me a decompensated cirrhotic liver that needs to be replaced with a transplant, which is complicated by itself. Then add in my otherwise poor health due to long term HIV infection with poor history of (you guessed it) monitoring of that, and my chances for making it thru this deal are slim although I do have chances. If I choose to drink alcohol again, I'm convinced those chances instantly disappear - no monitoring needed.
I hope you make a wise choice for your future life Josh!!!
beingsassy said
Sep 10, 2014
I certainly hope you get on the meds you want. There are much better choices of meds out then there used to be with new ones coming out regularly.
i took my last drink on 8/23/97. I used to think after 6 months I'd start again. I'm so glad I didn't. Alcohol is very hard on the liver. Even if you are cured it is important to make goid choices for your liver to help it repair from any damage. I wont judge you, that's not my right but I certainly hope that you feel the way I did after a few months clean and sober. Life spent in sobriety is wonderful. I hope you find that.
Best of luck to you
gigi
Josh Haynie said
Sep 9, 2014
i havent drank since 6-4-14 next Gastro apointment is December 1st.... thats 6 months... at that point you can apply for DAA....
if denied obviously i will challenge or say sumthing like If my liver isnt damaged enough i will get it there it may take 10 or 20 years but it will get done....
beating Hep C is a goal of mine... I shall truly test the word CURED out ... theres a chance i may not get SVR ... but I shall make a deal .. i will not drink any alcohol untill i am SVR 12 or SVR 16...
at that point I will have a beer... i monitor everything so much that if beer after SVR damages me or produces a viral count i will indeed stop .....but i heard my gastrointerologist say verbatim once your cured your cured .... Untill SVR i will stay in shape ...Work.. and eat healthy and stay alcohol and drug free... im even quitting cigaretes after 15 years... so for anyone to think im not taking this serious i say think again.... :) im not a bad person i just play one on TV....... and by the way congradulations to everyone who has gotten SVR I am truly glad for you and you earned it ... for those who havent dont give up ... if you have the will to beat sumthing you will find a way to do it......... i not completely conceeded ... I do listen to others .. sumtimes :)
anyway as dark as things may seem i shall shine my own light....... self dicipline can go along way in anything....... sorry if it seems im stubborn ... i assure you i am not .... your concerns are my concerns for the most part.... Sorry if i was a little Tyranicle earlier :) between working for the state and my dad having stage 4 cancer I would say if denied by the state board for Expensive DAA..ie Sovaldi .....
i have a good amount of levarage against them ... so thats another reason im not really worried ..... if denied i will be annoyed then I will go after them and challenge them in court ..... F2s are on the priority AALDS but i dont know if Oregon will recognise that... but if they dont i will counter there arguments.... Personaly id rather go after Gillead in Court :)
-- Edited by Josh Haynie on Wednesday 10th of September 2014 04:57:11 AM
-- Edited by Josh Haynie on Wednesday 10th of September 2014 05:03:37 AM
When you drink wine, beer what-ever, your liver enzymes go up and fall out of ratio. As we know the rise in ATL's do not have any thing to do with VL. In other words drinking does not cause your viral load to go up so a relapse from drinking is not vary probable.
Well Josh, I am already planning my next drink too.
I don't have cirrhosis, and unless I am advised by my doctor to never drink again, I don't see why I can't enjoy a glass of wine or two of an evening. It's a small pleasure, and we all have our vices. I figure you are either cured or not. I doubt if I am ever really cured, that the moderate drinking I've been guilty of in the past is going to result in a reinfection for me. I certainly won't drink during treatment.
Not me. I find it irritating some of the time and it makes me feel sorry for all those people who put up with my drunk a$$ all those years.
Good read Tig, I think the best part is why risk it, have an odooles because 1 beer ain't gonna get ya where you want to go anyway, and after one the next 3-4 come to easy because it's just enough to impair better judgement.
Im a never ever again guy so it's easy for me to say nope! Plus its fun to watch the drunk people even if they are friends...lol
excellent insights .......... little surprised this thread is still going
glad everyone is doing good....
Hi Cathy,
Congratulations on your good, no... great! news!! I wish you continued great news and hopes for a fabulous Italian celebration!
http://www.hepatitiscentral.com/mt/archives/2014/08/having-a-beer-after-svr.html?eml=hepcen216
I posted this in a different thread, and thought we had posted here too, but I fail to see it anywhere. It's a good booster site for those that have thoughts and questions on future ETOH use and abuse. I recommend anyone that reads into it to search the available references listed. This site, along with the references offer viewpoints for both sides of the issue. Your statement that we "own" the decisions we make, is spot on and so accurate! Best of luck to all...
Tig
Having said that, I think you still need to enjoy life and the decisions you make you own.
But...
Great News! Just got the email from my NP. UNDETECTED!!! 2.5 more weeks of drugs and then of course f/u 12 weeks after that. But this news, and your most positive responses, have lifted my spirits. Now...I'm going to unglue my ass from this office chair and step out into this sunny fall day and BREATHE.
:)
No one can predict the future damage drinking will do so if you want an absolute you will never find it. There is no consensus at this point that drinking alcohol in moderation will absolutely reactivate the HCV virus but I wouldn't consider taking the chance, regardless of my age, knowing what I know about the precarious nature of HCV as well as the precarious nature of alcohol and of human beings.
This may be offensive to some, but IMO, the only reason anyone would consider continuing to drink alcohol is because they have a dependency on alcohol that they may not wish to acknowledge. I know this because I have a dependency/addiction to tobacco and, while I have cut back to about 25% of my previous smoking, I still haven't stopped. When someone who has/had HCV tells me they will continue drinking, but only in moderation, it raises a big red flag that they have a significant emotional dependence on alcohol because logic certainly tells them not to take the chance. Something to consider, particularly with alcohol, which impairs judgment and can lead to drinking more than one intended to.
Not only does the potential exist that alcohol may reactivate the virus but also consider the liver damage. Accurately assessing liver damage is very difficult in reality because all diagnostic methods have significant error margins. Liver damage will continue with alcohol consumption. Many Hepatologists advise complete abstinence from alcohol for all HCV patients for this and other reasons.
-- Edited by Isiscat2011 on Tuesday 23rd of September 2014 06:16:05 PM
If you don't have Cirrhosis and you clear the hep C I don't think you will find one Hepatologist that would say an occasional drink is taboo, the people that need to worry about it is those that either have severe liver damage ( like me) or a substance abuse problem.
Duane
While I agree with the many reasons not to drink I can also see what Josh is trying to say. I'm young and most of my friends are single and alcohol is a part of our social lives. I drank regularly before treatment, I had a very high viral load due to it, but I was fortunate enough not to have liver damage. Alcohol was very easy to give up for treatment. I don't see myself ever having the same relationship with it because I know I don't need it. I am kicking this disease in its ass (svr 4 as of this morning) and when I reach SVR 12 I don't see why a glass of wine on special occasions is so faux pas. Tell me alcohol will bring the HepC back and then I will reconsider.
Yea I was thinking about that. I came to the conclusion that when I achieve SVR that I will no longer cycle 300kms per week as it places too much stress on the system. Look at the riders on the pro tour. Super fit but you continually hear of them pulling out of races due to health issues. Immune system just can't handle the load.Maybe 100kms per week max for me.
Cheers,
Paul
Even though I didn't reach SVR, every morning when I got up, looked at, and swallowed the pills that cost around $2000.00 I considered how fortunate and Thankful I was to have the opportunity to clear this virus. Knowing I have liver issues, I owe it to those who care about me to try and do my best to be there for them. I have many fond memories of great parties and good times with alcohol. Now I have to live with the cirrhotic liver and associated health problems knowing I contributed to them. It is a proven fact that alcohol destroys the liver. To coin a phrase, " a fool and his health are soon parted"
My friends all tell me, that I've been such a fool,
And I have to stand back and take it babe, all for lovin' you.
And I drown myself in sorrow, as I look at what you've done
But nothin' seems to change, the bad times stay the same
And I can't run. Some times I feel, whoa babe, sometimes I feel, like I've been tied to the whipping post.
Greg Allman a neighbor from the past. Allman Bros Band Live at the Fillmore East.
We can't change the past, but we can through our choices, affect our lives and the lives of others.
^^what Tig said. After tx with peg/ifn + Riba + Victrelis and all the misery plus post tx issues I'd never consider risking/throwing away my SVR for anything whatsoever.
If people could understand this one statement, it would serve everyone well. That is to understand that SVR (Sustained Viral Response) is just that, sustained. Your body sustains it but I think using "maintained" might actually be more accurate. Once your body has achieved SVR, which is now considered an undetectable viral load 12 weeks after the end of treatment (EOT +12). The word cured should be used very loosely. Nowhere does SVR list a 100% cure of HCV, most will use a chance of relapse of <1%. SVR is basically the body's ability to utilize it's own immune system to keep the virus at an undetectable level. <5-15 copies IU/ml. An iimmune system crisis could weaken it (your immune system) to such a degree, that viral replication once again overwhelms your immune system, resulting in HCV viral relapse. Doing anything that subjects the body to undue stress and strain can have adverse effects on all body systems. Best to do absolutely everything you can to avoid undue stresses on any system. Best to consider SVR as a potentially fragile state and serving up a beer in a crystal glass that might shatter, is a risk you may not want to take... Just food for thought.
Tig
Excellent responses :) very REAL and honest.....
Ive been where youve been ...
Glad were here together ....
Turn the Page :) Bob Seager or metallica.......
Amen to that.
There comes a point where your next breath means a lot more than your next beer.
You make that point very eloquently.
Thanks Duane, but if you were to spend some time with me living life, you would see that I'm not always very inspirational and my outlook gets pretty crappy at times. But that's what happens when you live 40+ years wide open party then wake up / sober up to these consequences.
There's nothing I can do about that now except move on with what I have left. But I have enough experience with it all that I can share with the younger crowd who are going through what I did and hopefully say something that will prevent them from trashing their body as bad as I did.
The way I see it, if I can help save a life through my experience, then it makes my mistakes somehow be well worth it.
I just hope Josh or someone else will learn from my mistakes like I did not do from those the that went before me.
Mike, that was an awesome post, it is as true sounding as if really came directly from your heart and soul, you have some extreme challanges but about the best outlook of anyone I know of, you will and are an inspiration to many.
All I can say is well done...bravo!
Duane
Hi Josh.
Whether to drink or not when / if I acheive SVR is something that has crossed my mind. But it didn't cross it for long before I had my answer. And as a result of plenty of experience in making bad choices for myself, I have learned to base my answer on true experience. And my experience is that last time I monitored my liver damage resulting from drinking alcohol, I monitored it right up into Methodist University Hospital ER via ambulance for an exciting, very costly thorough round of procedures that produced indisputable evidence that I'm not very good at monitoring my liver.
And I have plenty of indisputable evidence that I am very efficient and thorough at trashing my liver, and that didn't take any hi-tech machines, but it is proving to be the most costly mistake I ever made.
So I got my answer, and when my mind tries to rationalize and justify a good reason why i can continue to drink alcohol, I have the facts to look at and a choice to make. I've been making the right choice since January and I pray that I continue to. I have no doubt that I've got a good drunk left in me, but I'm also convinced I don't have a snowballs chance in hell of sobering up again in time to live.
So for me: to drink alcohol is to die. And I agree with beingsassy today: Life spent in sobriety can be so wonderful, so why would taking a chance on screwing that up in favor of drinking a beer even cross my mind in the first place.
It's also not my right to judge, so I can only offer my experience as an example of how not to do it, just like many others that had been down this road before had offered to me, although I didn't apply any of their experience toward my life.
My monitoring of my liver got me a decompensated cirrhotic liver that needs to be replaced with a transplant, which is complicated by itself. Then add in my otherwise poor health due to long term HIV infection with poor history of (you guessed it) monitoring of that, and my chances for making it thru this deal are slim although I do have chances. If I choose to drink alcohol again, I'm convinced those chances instantly disappear - no monitoring needed.
I hope you make a wise choice for your future life Josh!!!
I certainly hope you get on the meds you want. There are much better choices of meds out then there used to be with new ones coming out regularly.
i took my last drink on 8/23/97. I used to think after 6 months I'd start again. I'm so glad I didn't. Alcohol is very hard on the liver. Even if you are cured it is important to make goid choices for your liver to help it repair from any damage. I wont judge you, that's not my right but I certainly hope that you feel the way I did after a few months clean and sober. Life spent in sobriety is wonderful. I hope you find that.
Best of luck to you
gigi
i havent drank since 6-4-14 next Gastro apointment is December 1st.... thats 6 months... at that point you can apply for DAA....
if denied obviously i will challenge or say sumthing like If my liver isnt damaged enough i will get it there it may take 10 or 20 years but it will get done....
beating Hep C is a goal of mine... I shall truly test the word CURED out ... theres a chance i may not get SVR ... but I shall make a deal .. i will not drink any alcohol untill i am SVR 12 or SVR 16...
at that point I will have a beer... i monitor everything so much that if beer after SVR damages me or produces a viral count i will indeed stop .....but i heard my gastrointerologist say verbatim once your cured your cured .... Untill SVR i will stay in shape ...Work.. and eat healthy and stay alcohol and drug free... im even quitting cigaretes after 15 years... so for anyone to think im not taking this serious i say think again.... :) im not a bad person i just play one on TV....... and by the way congradulations to everyone who has gotten SVR I am truly glad for you and you earned it ... for those who havent dont give up ... if you have the will to beat sumthing you will find a way to do it......... i not completely conceeded ... I do listen to others .. sumtimes :)
anyway as dark as things may seem i shall shine my own light....... self dicipline can go along way in anything....... sorry if it seems im stubborn ... i assure you i am not .... your concerns are my concerns for the most part.... Sorry if i was a little Tyranicle earlier :) between working for the state and my dad having stage 4 cancer I would say if denied by the state board for Expensive DAA..ie Sovaldi .....
i have a good amount of levarage against them ... so thats another reason im not really worried ..... if denied i will be annoyed then I will go after them and challenge them in court ..... F2s are on the priority AALDS but i dont know if Oregon will recognise that... but if they dont i will counter there arguments.... Personaly id rather go after Gillead in Court :)
-- Edited by Josh Haynie on Wednesday 10th of September 2014 04:57:11 AM
-- Edited by Josh Haynie on Wednesday 10th of September 2014 05:03:37 AM