I think Harvoni is a better drug because it is a stand-alone product, and a single dose per day. Unfortunately, I don't think Gilead will drop their prices because of this new drug as Abbvie seems to be appropriately priced against its superior competitor.
I was willing to do triple, but I'm not sure I could have tolerated that. I was having quite a few side effects on Harvoni. Had I reported all of them to my treatment team, I may have been pulled off TX. Thankfully, I only had to endure SEs for 8 weeks. YMMV
lilbit said
Dec 26, 2014
Pauliep I have seen so many articles from Abbvie and also Drs talking about why express Scripts went with them I will have to look back a ways to find them. One in particular stands out in my mind and was posted in another thread here. The article in our local paper, The Santa Fe New Mexican, stated it was a "significant discount" but did not give the details.
I was thrilled to see fourlocos was able to get approved and I have also seen several others on another group. It appears that if you have someone that will fight for you you might stand a chance and also different insurance companies. To really put it in perspective though you need to look at all the denials you have seen on this forum alone and how many times people have had to appeal.
I will admit that I am totally up in arms about all the attitude towards Abbvie and Express Scripts for cutting a deal with them. When Harvoni first came out it turned into an absolute circus here with anger, stress and sheer panic because of all the denials and how hard very sick people were trying to get a life saving drug. The insurance companies and the rx providers were making it very clear they could not afford to treat everyone. All everyone could talk about was how the prices could be brought down even asking for government involvement. There were fights here over who should be treated with limited funds and who should have to wait. I have watched them all. Now Abbvie enters the picture and comes in slightly under Harvoni. Then people were disappointed that Abbvie wasn't much cheaper to create competition and force Gilead to lower their prices. Now because gilead did not want to bargain on their prices Express Scripts (and probably a lot more companies down the road) struck a deal with Abbvie. Hopefully more people will get treated quicker and everyone is pissed about the deal. I have no idea what it is going to take to make gilead lower prices but it seems to me this might be a start. pauliep is 100% correct in saying they are not seeing you as a person but as a dollar sign.
I totally realize that I am in a very small minority here but I will continue to support Abbvie on this for one reason. There are folks out there that are not going to be approved for Harvoni at least not right away. I do not feel it is fair to these people to feel like there is no hope for them in the near future. Havoni is not the only treatment saving lives and it isn't right to scare people away from one that has a very good success rate. From what I am sure everyone is reading there are even more coming in the future. Life is not fair, if it were we might not even have this disease. It is not fair that one person relapses on a treatment and another doesn't. it isn't fair that some people have gone through three and four horrible treatments. It isn't fair that money can decide what treatment you get but that is where it is right at the moment. This is actually kind of bitterweet for me. So far I am undected on Abbvie. I go for EOT+4 on Mon. I still have a lot of weeks to see if the treatment worked. I could be part of the small percentage that relapse but won't know until the end. My husband on the other hand has failed twice on the PI and won't qualify for Abbvie. I was hoping he would. We too will be fighting for Harvoni like everyone else. Like I said life is not fair.
Oh and I too have seen that other countries are getting huge discounts. Again it doesn't seem fair. Do you think that is because of their economies or do you have an idea why?
-- Edited by lilbit on Friday 26th of December 2014 06:38:17 AM
pauliep said
Dec 25, 2014
lilbit- What I have found in my research is that the actual discount rate to the pharmacy providers by both AbbVie and Gilead is a well guarded secret. If you have a reliable source of what that discount rate actually is, then I stand corrected, and will seek out better sources of info. I am currently more than halfway through a 12 week Harvoni treatment and consider myself very fortunate to have been approved for the drug that my doctor recommended. I am hopeful that everyone who needs this treatment will get the one that is right for them as prescribed by their doctor, and not some decision made by a bean counter at an insurance company. I have also read, and please correct me if I am wrong, I will not take offense, that Harvoni is sold at as much as a 99% discount depending on what country it is going to. They have tremendous flexibility in pricing, and we need legislation that gives us access to better pricing on meds if they are available elsewhere for less money.
fourlocos said
Dec 25, 2014
I think the statement that those who don't have cirrhosis won't get approved isn't quite true. I was approved within six days from BCBS of IL. First request from my GI doctor. I saw him and he told me that it would be a battle because they were turning down so many he requested. He said he would fight for me but to not expect anything for a few months. I was shocked six days later to get a call to come pick up my Harvoni. I am between an F1-F2 with a VL between 1mil and 2 mil. Just wanted to point that out. All is not always hopeless. I was blessed. I am not sure if I have express scripts or not. I never got denied to find out who they use.
-- Edited by fourlocos on Friday 26th of December 2014 03:24:49 AM
lilbit said
Dec 25, 2014
Overall this statement is right on but I take offense to a couple claims you made. Yes at announced price of $83,000 Abbvies treatment was about $10,000 cheaper than Harvoni. But at the deal price it came in at $56.000. The information is out there and well known.
And second Abbvie's treatment is NOT of lesser quality and the cure rates are as high if not higher than Harvoni. Do a little research and get the facts before making a statement like that.
Yes there are people that will not be able to tolerate Abbvies treatment. Some will not be able to take Riba. Some are taking prescription drugs that will not mix with the treatment. And some will have past relapses to certain drugs that will exclude them from Abbvie. Express Scripts is making allowances for those people.
I thought the idea here was to get well with whatever will work. People without late stage cirrosis didn't even stand a chance getting approved with harvoni. I would think people would be happy that people were going to get treated.
pauliep said
Dec 25, 2014
I don't know how all of this will shake out, but as of right now, Gilead's stock price is plummeting on the deal Express Scripts has made with AbbVie. Express Scripts, which is the biggest pharmacy coverage provider service to the insurance companies, will cover all prescriptions for AbbVie's newly approved hep-C treatment, Viekira Pak, and will only approve Gilead's Harvoni and Sovaldi for patients who cannot tolerate ribavirin. The AbbVie treatment will cost approximately $10,000 less than Harvoni. Unless Gilead lowers prices to stay competetive, hep-C patients will be forced by Gilead's greed to take a drug of lesser quality. IT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD TO PRESSURE YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO BE AWARE OF THIS SITUATION!!!! We are, due to the exorbitant costs of these drugs, at the mercy of the insurance companies, the pharmaceutical companies, and the middleman providers like Express Scripts and CVS Caremark. We are not patients with a life threatening disease, we are customers and provide the huge, and obscene profits from our demand. Over time, as new treatments and cures become available, prices will likely come down to more realistic levels. For the moment though, getting the best treatment for hep-C is likely going to be a tricky endeavor, and a frustrating exercise in futility.
I think Harvoni is a better drug because it is a stand-alone product, and a single dose per day. Unfortunately, I don't think Gilead will drop their prices because of this new drug as Abbvie seems to be appropriately priced against its superior competitor.
I was willing to do triple, but I'm not sure I could have tolerated that. I was having quite a few side effects on Harvoni. Had I reported all of them to my treatment team, I may have been pulled off TX. Thankfully, I only had to endure SEs for 8 weeks.
YMMV
Pauliep I have seen so many articles from Abbvie and also Drs talking about why express Scripts went with them I will have to look back a ways to find them. One in particular stands out in my mind and was posted in another thread here. The article in our local paper, The Santa Fe New Mexican, stated it was a "significant discount" but did not give the details.
I was thrilled to see fourlocos was able to get approved and I have also seen several others on another group. It appears that if you have someone that will fight for you you might stand a chance and also different insurance companies. To really put it in perspective though you need to look at all the denials you have seen on this forum alone and how many times people have had to appeal.
I will admit that I am totally up in arms about all the attitude towards Abbvie and Express Scripts for cutting a deal with them. When Harvoni first came out it turned into an absolute circus here with anger, stress and sheer panic because of all the denials and how hard very sick people were trying to get a life saving drug. The insurance companies and the rx providers were making it very clear they could not afford to treat everyone. All everyone could talk about was how the prices could be brought down even asking for government involvement. There were fights here over who should be treated with limited funds and who should have to wait. I have watched them all. Now Abbvie enters the picture and comes in slightly under Harvoni. Then people were disappointed that Abbvie wasn't much cheaper to create competition and force Gilead to lower their prices. Now because gilead did not want to bargain on their prices Express Scripts (and probably a lot more companies down the road) struck a deal with Abbvie. Hopefully more people will get treated quicker and everyone is pissed about the deal. I have no idea what it is going to take to make gilead lower prices but it seems to me this might be a start. pauliep is 100% correct in saying they are not seeing you as a person but as a dollar sign.
I totally realize that I am in a very small minority here but I will continue to support Abbvie on this for one reason. There are folks out there that are not going to be approved for Harvoni at least not right away. I do not feel it is fair to these people to feel like there is no hope for them in the near future. Havoni is not the only treatment saving lives and it isn't right to scare people away from one that has a very good success rate. From what I am sure everyone is reading there are even more coming in the future. Life is not fair, if it were we might not even have this disease. It is not fair that one person relapses on a treatment and another doesn't. it isn't fair that some people have gone through three and four horrible treatments. It isn't fair that money can decide what treatment you get but that is where it is right at the moment. This is actually kind of bitterweet for me. So far I am undected on Abbvie. I go for EOT+4 on Mon. I still have a lot of weeks to see if the treatment worked. I could be part of the small percentage that relapse but won't know until the end. My husband on the other hand has failed twice on the PI and won't qualify for Abbvie. I was hoping he would. We too will be fighting for Harvoni like everyone else. Like I said life is not fair.
Oh and I too have seen that other countries are getting huge discounts. Again it doesn't seem fair. Do you think that is because of their economies or do you have an idea why?
-- Edited by lilbit on Friday 26th of December 2014 06:38:17 AM
lilbit- What I have found in my research is that the actual discount rate to the pharmacy providers by both AbbVie and Gilead is a well guarded secret. If you have a reliable source of what that discount rate actually is, then I stand corrected, and will seek out better sources of info. I am currently more than halfway through a 12 week Harvoni treatment and consider myself very fortunate to have been approved for the drug that my doctor recommended. I am hopeful that everyone who needs this treatment will get the one that is right for them as prescribed by their doctor, and not some decision made by a bean counter at an insurance company. I have also read, and please correct me if I am wrong, I will not take offense, that Harvoni is sold at as much as a 99% discount depending on what country it is going to. They have tremendous flexibility in pricing, and we need legislation that gives us access to better pricing on meds if they are available elsewhere for less money.
I think the statement that those who don't have cirrhosis won't get approved isn't quite true. I was approved within six days from BCBS of IL. First request from my GI doctor. I saw him and he told me that it would be a battle because they were turning down so many he requested. He said he would fight for me but to not expect anything for a few months. I was shocked six days later to get a call to come pick up my Harvoni. I am between an F1-F2 with a VL between 1mil and 2 mil. Just wanted to point that out. All is not always hopeless. I was blessed. I am not sure if I have express scripts or not. I never got denied to find out who they use.
-- Edited by fourlocos on Friday 26th of December 2014 03:24:49 AM
And second Abbvie's treatment is NOT of lesser quality and the cure rates are as high if not higher than Harvoni. Do a little research and get the facts before making a statement like that.
Yes there are people that will not be able to tolerate Abbvies treatment. Some will not be able to take Riba. Some are taking prescription drugs that will not mix with the treatment. And some will have past relapses to certain drugs that will exclude them from Abbvie. Express Scripts is making allowances for those people.
I thought the idea here was to get well with whatever will work. People without late stage cirrosis didn't even stand a chance getting approved with harvoni. I would think people would be happy that people were going to get treated.
I don't know how all of this will shake out, but as of right now, Gilead's stock price is plummeting on the deal Express Scripts has made with AbbVie. Express Scripts, which is the biggest pharmacy coverage provider service to the insurance companies, will cover all prescriptions for AbbVie's newly approved hep-C treatment, Viekira Pak, and will only approve Gilead's Harvoni and Sovaldi for patients who cannot tolerate ribavirin. The AbbVie treatment will cost approximately $10,000 less than Harvoni. Unless Gilead lowers prices to stay competetive, hep-C patients will be forced by Gilead's greed to take a drug of lesser quality. IT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD TO PRESSURE YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO BE AWARE OF THIS SITUATION!!!! We are, due to the exorbitant costs of these drugs, at the mercy of the insurance companies, the pharmaceutical companies, and the middleman providers like Express Scripts and CVS Caremark. We are not patients with a life threatening disease, we are customers and provide the huge, and obscene profits from our demand. Over time, as new treatments and cures become available, prices will likely come down to more realistic levels. For the moment though, getting the best treatment for hep-C is likely going to be a tricky endeavor, and a frustrating exercise in futility.