Hep C Discussion Forum

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Chatbox
Please log in to join the chat!
Hep C Discussion Forum -> General Discussion -> Hi hope someone can help.
Post Info TOPIC: Hi hope someone can help.
jrc209


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Date:
RE: Hi hope someone can help.
Permalink  
 

Minerva wrote:

Hi Lesley, i really wish i had a better understanding of this so i could help you with it.  What a horrible situation to be in.

I have been looking online and it seems that UND can sometimes depend on what test they use. If they used the one that couldn't detect <43 iu/ml then you'd be considered as undetected with any count under 43.  But, they are obviously using a more precise rna test that detects lower levels of virus.  Apparently they have some tests that can detect as low as 5iu/ml, which would make your 15iu/ml, detected.

I am not sure whether this helps any or not Lesley and i hope you get a proper explanation soon of how it actually translates.  

Sorry that you are being left unclear like this.

Hugs

Heather xxx 

 This test u speak of <43 will detect 7 copies - 69,000,000 and up this is the roche Cobas ampliprep/taqman   Just Fyi.

 

Most Drs use this test.



__________________

Geno 1 A Started Tx 8-3-11, Viral Load  21.2 Million,  4 Week Lead of Soc ,9-1-11 <43 On Soc alone started victrelis 9-3 ,8 week pcr vL und.Week 12 Vl Und, Did Week 24 PCR Results UND @ Week 24!!! 1-11-12,End Of Tx 2-15-2012 !!
jrc209


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Date:
Permalink  
 

borowif wrote:

Hi all

Thanks to everyone who has tried to help clarify my situation.

Have spoken to my nurse at last. She seems to think the tx hasnt worked & I wouldnt be able to have treatment again. crying.gif

However she is arranging for me to have more bloods done sooner rather than later which will save the issue dragging on for so long.

The results in uk take about 4 weeks to come through so shall let you know then. I do know that the previous results showed less than 15 units per ml. Whatever that means???????????

Take care everybody best wishes luv'n hugs

Lesley xxxxxxxxxxx

 

 If you are below <15 copies 6 months after tx you are in the clear,The virus would replicate much faster than that if it was active your VL would be in the thousands.Other websites for hcv have nurse practioners you can ask questions to and this has been addressed more than once. I can give you links if need be.



__________________

Geno 1 A Started Tx 8-3-11, Viral Load  21.2 Million,  4 Week Lead of Soc ,9-1-11 <43 On Soc alone started victrelis 9-3 ,8 week pcr vL und.Week 12 Vl Und, Did Week 24 PCR Results UND @ Week 24!!! 1-11-12,End Of Tx 2-15-2012 !!
jrc209


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Date:
Permalink  
 

 

Notice the range of detection? anything above7 and below 43 copiies would read <43.



-- Edited by jrc209 on Thursday 9th of February 2012 01:14:24 AM

__________________

Geno 1 A Started Tx 8-3-11, Viral Load  21.2 Million,  4 Week Lead of Soc ,9-1-11 <43 On Soc alone started victrelis 9-3 ,8 week pcr vL und.Week 12 Vl Und, Did Week 24 PCR Results UND @ Week 24!!! 1-11-12,End Of Tx 2-15-2012 !!
Minerva


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2283
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Lesley, i really wish i had a better understanding of this so i could help you with it.  What a horrible situation to be in.

I have been looking online and it seems that UND can sometimes depend on what test they use. If they used the one that couldn't detect <43 iu/ml then you'd be considered as undetected with any count under 43.  But, they are obviously using a more precise rna test that detects lower levels of virus.  Apparently they have some tests that can detect as low as 5iu/ml, which would make your 15iu/ml, detected.

I am not sure whether this helps any or not Lesley and i hope you get a proper explanation soon of how it actually translates.  

Sorry that you are being left unclear like this.

Hugs

Heather xxx 



__________________

Finished TX 2005. Geno 3. Achieved SVR - Heather.

When You Are Up To Your Neck In It - Keep Your Chin Up!!

'Knowledge. Is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not using it in a fruit salad'. My dad. X.
Cinnamon Girl


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 5629
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Lesley, I`m so sorry to hear this.  You must be even more confused now - first you`re told to `consider it gone` and not to worry about it, and now you`ve been told this.  It`s really dreadful that they are treating you so badly, it`s just not good enough at all.

Hang on in there, at least you`re having more tests done sooner rather than later, and let`s hope you hear something conclusive when those results come through.  Hope you don`t have to wait too long either this time.

Keep you chin up girl, we`ve all got everything crossed for you! smile

Hugs, Jill xxx



__________________

Jill 

(71 yo, lives in UK)

Was Gen 3a, 

24wks Peg Ifn/Riba, Sep 2010 - Mch 2011

UND @ Wk.4, UND @ EOT, 

SVR Nov 2011 --> Still UND @ EOT + 4 yrs.

 

 
borowif


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 196
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi all

Thanks to everyone who has tried to help clarify my situation.

Have spoken to my nurse at last. She seems to think the tx hasnt worked & I wouldnt be able to have treatment again. crying.gif

However she is arranging for me to have more bloods done sooner rather than later which will save the issue dragging on for so long.

The results in uk take about 4 weeks to come through so shall let you know then. I do know that the previous results showed less than 15 units per ml. Whatever that means???????????

Take care everybody best wishes luv'n hugs

Lesley xxxxxxxxxxx

 



__________________

You got your health, You got your wealth!!
jrc209


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 314
Date:
Permalink  
 

Highly unlikely.



__________________

Geno 1 A Started Tx 8-3-11, Viral Load  21.2 Million,  4 Week Lead of Soc ,9-1-11 <43 On Soc alone started victrelis 9-3 ,8 week pcr vL und.Week 12 Vl Und, Did Week 24 PCR Results UND @ Week 24!!! 1-11-12,End Of Tx 2-15-2012 !!
kr


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 34
Date:
Permalink  
 

I just switched from LabCorp to Quest because my insurance changed. Don't know specifics but 9 week labcorp was 25 and 13 week Quest was 19 (a difference of only 6 but still detectable). Something tells me that the Quest test is much more sensitive but based on the following article, appears as though if you are undetectable on a less sensitive test you will relapse anyway so best to use the sensitive test. I am just hoping the 19 goes to undetectable in the next 7 weeks
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21447866

__________________
Phil G


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 303
Date:
Permalink  
 

I apologize for hijacking this thread, but I was surprised to see a difference between the tests run by Labcorp and Quest. I was just about to change from Labcorp to Quest for insurance reasons. I got an undetected at 8 weeks with Labcorp, and I think it would really gum up the works if Quest gets something different at Week 12.

Any thoughts?



__________________

Geno 1A, VL 1.9 mm, SOT 12/2/11 - Pegintron/Ribavirin/Victrelis, UND since wk 8, EOT 6/15/12 (28 wks), SVR 11/30/12
Minerva


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2283
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Lesley, sorry to hear you are being left without clarity with this.  I'm inclined to agree with Steff that it could be such a low amount, that it is classed as und.  

I absolutely hope this is the case and that you get an explanation soon.

Hugs

Heather xxx



__________________

Finished TX 2005. Geno 3. Achieved SVR - Heather.

When You Are Up To Your Neck In It - Keep Your Chin Up!!

'Knowledge. Is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not using it in a fruit salad'. My dad. X.
greenqueen


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2282
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Lesley,

One of our members, krowdog, kindly sent me some info on PCR tests.

Source: medhelp.org.

Contrary to what some NPs and even GIs think, Labcorp QuantaSure is NOT the same test as Quest Diagnostics Heptimax.

QuantaSure is a 1 step PCR (polymerase chain reaction) test using Roche's TaqMan.
Assay range: 10 - 100,000,000 IU/mL.

http://labcorp.com/pdf/One_Source_Infectious_Disease_Reference_Guide_1394.pdf

On the other hand, Heptimax (CPT Code: 87522) is a 2 STEP test.
Step 1: Roche's TaqMan PCR test.
Step 2: If the HCV RNA level is below 50 IU/mL, then the sample is ASSAYED AGAIN using the TMA (transcription mediated amplification) Bayer Diagnostics method.
Assay range: 5 - 50,000,000 IU/mL.

http://questdiagnostics.com/hcp/intguide/jsp/showintguidepage.jsp?fn=TH_HEPTIMAX.htm

Although Labcorp and Quest claim comparable sensitivity for their HCV RNA tests, several studies showed that significant percentage of PCR negative patients turn out to be TMA positive. One recent study found that 12.5%(!) of patients who showed clear by PCR at end of treatment had detectible virus when measured by TMA. Naturally, nearly every one of those with detectible virus by TMA relapsed when treatment was withdrawn.

http://www.natap.org/2005/HCV/122805_04.htm
"How Should TMA Be Used" - Martina Gerottoa et al.; Journal of Hepatology. Jan 2006

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2006roberts/hcv/081106_c.html
"HCV RNA detection by TMA" - Morishima et al.; Hepatology 44(2):360-367. August 2006

Love Steff xx

-- Edited by greenqueen on Monday 6th of February 2012 02:37:30 PM

__________________
Geno 3a. 24 wks tx 20/10/05 - 06/04/06. Achieved SVR.
krowdog


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 377
Date:
Permalink  
 

Here in US, the doctors send the blood to a lab, and get back a report.

I usually get my info directly from the lab, it's quicker.  If you know the lab it goes to, maybe you can get your report directly from them. 

Good luck,

Brad



__________________

(Geno 1a, Incivek Triple Tx, 6 month post TX - 9/20/2012 = SVR!!!)
Suzanneaz


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 70
Date:
Permalink  
 

Im sorry your having these problems. I get copies of my blood work each visit from the past visit. Maybe go into the office and request a copy of it from the nurse. Best wishes to you hun.



__________________

Hep 1A. 550,000. Starting tx on 1/06.

 
Greg


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 702
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Lesley,
So sorry to hear about the way you have been treated, thinking of you and I'd be looking for another Doc. I'm sure all is okay.
Big Hugs,
Greg
xxx

__________________

The mind is like a parachute it works best when it is open. "The Dalai Lama" My blog: http://greghcv.wordpress.com/
Genotype 1a, started tx 1st Feb 2011, for 48 wks. Week 24 PCR 26/07/11 Non-Responder
New TX start date 12th Sept 2016 Harvoni x24 weeks.  VL 7.4 Mil. Week 4 "Undetected"
Iris Dragonfly


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1166
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Lesley, Hope they get it figured out for you, how very frustrating...and scary. I'm wishing you the best...

ps. you look great there in front of the fire!   Blessings, Iris



__________________

in the silence of the woods, you will not be alone- Chief Seattle

60 years on planet, Female, diagnosed 1978 as non-a non-b, VL 8mill+, Fibro f-1f-2, Genotype 1a, treatment naïve....UNTIL 7-01-18  !!!! started Harvoni 12 weeks. :)

4 weeks=UND, 8 weeks=UND, 12 weeks=UND (EOT= 09-23-2018)
borowif


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 196
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi there folks,

As some of you may already know Ive had a lot of time wasted trying to find my 6 month blood results post tx.Because I heard nothing, I thought no news is good news.

However, after my app. earlier this week with a specialist I had never met before ( I was in & out in approx 2 mins) I was informed that there was still a small amount of the virus showing in my blood, but to consider it gone.confuse

I tried to ask questions but was told not to think about it. (easier said than done)

So here I am, in a state of bewilderment once more.

I was just wondering if any of  our good folks here have any experience of this happening? Dont know what to think.

I will be having my bloods done again in 3 monthe & see this stranger again in 6.

Best wishes & hugs to you all

Lesley x



__________________

You got your health, You got your wealth!!
greenqueen


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2282
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Lesley,

I think I can offer an explanation for this , given what this consultant has said - apart from your medical care being disgraceful and dismissive!

Because the tests vary in sensitivity, you could still have a small amount of virus in your blood and still be in the "undetectable " range. You need to insist on a copy of the tests results and find out which test was used. I've posted a list of the tests below and a link to more explanation.

There are currently three tests commonly used for HCV
viral load testing:

Polymerase chain reaction (PCR) — PCR tests detect
HCV RNA in the blood, which indicates current active infection.
This type of quantitative PCR test is very sensitive, and
can measure as few as 5-10 IU/mL.

Branched-chain DNA (bDNA) — The bDNA method
quantitative viral load testing is easier (and cheaper) to
use for a large number of samples, but only measures viral
loads greater than 615 IU/mL. This means that if a person
has a viral load below 615 IU/mL, HCV could be present
in the blood but not be detected by the test. However, the
test will detect higher viral load ranges so it is useful when
beginning HCV therapy.

Transcription-mediated amplification (TMA) — TMA
technology allows for the amplification and detection of
nucleic acids (components of genetic material) in the blood.
This test can measure as few as 5-10 IU/mL. This newer
test appears easier and cheaper to use, streamlining test
processing and producing consistent, reliable, and more
rapid results.



http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/factsheets_pdf/viralload.pdf


It's bad enough that you had to wait so long for the results and then not being given a proper explanation!

Think you're going to have to be very insistent with his.

Love Steff xx




-- Edited by greenqueen on Sunday 5th of February 2012 07:14:26 PM

__________________
Geno 3a. 24 wks tx 20/10/05 - 06/04/06. Achieved SVR.
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
Hep C Discussion Forum -> General Discussion -> Hi hope someone can help.
Legal Disclaimer:

THIS FORUM, IT'S OWNERS, ADMINISTRATORS, MODERATORS AND MEMBERS DO NOT AT ANY TIME GIVE MEDICAL ADVICE AND IN ALL CASES REFER ANYONE HERE TO SEEK APPROPRIATE MEDICAL ADVICE FROM THEIR DOCTOR.