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Hep C Discussion Forum -> General Discussion -> How does one expunge all remants of the HCV after one reaches undetectable?
Post Info TOPIC: How does one expunge all remants of the HCV after one reaches undetectable?
Scout


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RE: How does one expunge all remants of the HCV after one reaches undetectable?
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popcorn.gif



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Geno 1a, Viral load at 2 4, 8, 12 and 16  weeks, UND, Triple therapy Incevek done,   Peg & Riba Done, UND and making plans for the future!!
Northern


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Deep tissue massage dislodging HCV from the muscles? Sorry disagree with the concept. In that vein of thought, then a tumble on ice could cause re-infection. Enzymes can be released from damaged muscles that sometimes can cause kidneys problems but proper hydration will usually fix that.

 

 



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1b, 3rd time around on treatment. Stage IV cirr. Undetectable at 8 weeks with Incviek. Been infected since the late 70s. 48wk treatment completed. Sustained undetectable. 
Daook


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Hey Jlme- i like the head remark.

My head sure can be the biggest pain in the arse somtimes. yawn

 



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Geno 1a, second time around, stable viral load since 1973, timing is right for new therapy
mallani


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Matt,

Let's start with the one topic you claim to understand- deep tissue massage. Be it called Reiki, Shiatsu or any other name, the purpose is to  relax the deep layers of muscle and connective tissue and promoting lymph flow. This will promote relaxation and a feeling of well being. The daughter of a good friend is one of the top Reiki practioners in Brisbane and has a very busy practice. From previous talks, even she would not make the 'misleading' claim you make, that intracellular virus can somehow be 'dislodged' from their organ or tissue of residence.  If you disagree with this, please supply a Reference.

You have posted a internet list of reasons why the immune system could be compromised, together with the scaremongering 'beware', 'and your risk is high'. Suppose I am a 70 yo who attained SVR 5 years ago. I have been taking blood pressure medication for 40 years, I am having surgery to remove a skin cancer, followed by Radiotherapy. If I read your post I'd assume I will relapse- which is rubbish. This is why your post is 'misleading'.

Post SVR patients control residual virus (if they have any) with a highly regulated Tcell lymphocyte response. Your internet list does not have any effect on this. Again, this is 'misleading' content.

Serious discussion is always wecome on the Forum. The tone of your posts do not invite discussion-starting from your post about 'natural' ways of reducing bilirubin levels and continuing to your claims about deep tissue massage. If you are going to post, stick to what you know and provide recognised references.

 



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Geno 1b, IL28B CT,  x3 prior relapser,  ex-cirrhotic, 75 yo, did 48 weeks with Victrelis/Peg./Riba.  VL 1.28m at start, UNDET. at 8 ,12 ,16 ,24 ,30  and 48 weeks.  EOT 15 Feb 2013 , UNDET. at EOT + 28 weeks. SVR!  Still Undet. at EOT +5 years

Malcolm
J2theB


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Lots of crazy claims being made without one link to a clinical study supporting these claims. 



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JIme


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I think removal of my head would do me a world of good sometimes. That should take care of most of my random renagades floating around inside of me.

Seriously........

The reason this forum is so good is that our moderators keep a tight reign on the "facts" many of us post. I for one, appreciate it. On some of the other forums discussions often deteriorate and become a debabting thread instead of a helpful thread.

Thanks guys and please stay the course.



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jim

GT1a, St2 Lv2 last biopsy 2002, VL  11.4m,  start triple tx 9/30/11

VL 470 @4wks.....VL 22,000 @8wks  stopped tx

Round 2-  Started 3/16/12   PSI-7977, BMS-790052, Riba Undetectable day 14

Did 24 weeks Still UND 12 weeks post tx, SVR24!!!!!!! 2/14/13

 

 

 

 

 
Biggyb


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I once looked for causes of a headache online and they had me dead within a month. Way too

much false crapola on the internet.



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58 yo..Relapsed in 99 and again in 2004. Started triple therapy with Victrelis July 22,2012.  genotype 1a. week 8,12,16,24 VL Undetectable..E.O.T -- 6-22-2013,,,EOT + 24., UND. 

SVR !!!

 

~Bob~
Matt Chris


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I respectfully disagree with your assessment regarding deep tissue massage, as the lymphatic system is stimulated when a massage is given and carries out many old and unwanted cellular properties. And there are thousands of Massage Therapists that would agree.

I also respectfully disagree on your assessment of my thoughts; my post did not have misleading content.

I never said anything was a fact,  by definition a discussion is thoughts, opinions and observations discussed between parties whether they be right or wrong good or bad . I never purported to be some expert,  its just a thought or opinion not a peered reviewed scientific paper.

If you disagree that's  fine,  respectfully do so and give your reasons,  for the benefit of those who are reading the thread.

To publically chide a member because he has a thought that you disagree with, amounts to bullying and degrading them as individuals and it also limits the purpose of an open forum.

IF my thoughts are incorrect please by a means correct me and explain your viewpoint, but please dont bully are members when we express a viewpoint that does not agree with yours, it make you look very distasteful.   There is no person that has monopoly on the truth, but Truth reveals itself over time.

Matt



-- Edited by Matt Chris on Saturday 2nd of March 2013 08:55:37 PM



-- Edited by Matt Chris on Sunday 3rd of March 2013 12:39:49 AM

__________________

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"

61 year old Geno type A1, F4 Cirrhotic, started 24 weeks on Harvoni 12-17-14 ,EOT-5 week = UND, 8-31-15 =UND , SVR-24 Baby YES! 
Zlikster


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DJ, don't be sad...we are full of latent viruses and parsites like EBV (one of herpes, HHV-4) 90-95% adults have it...or Toxo parasite (from country to country, buy can go up to 70%). Regarding HCV, i presume until some triple DAA which can target/penetrate all cells where HCV is hiding is out, or a some general antiviral projects like DRACO is finally available to humans (which targets all double stranded RNA/DNA viruses and makes infected cells comit apotosis without replicating virus), this thing we with PegInt, Riba and Telpravir/Boceprevir is best atm we have

lots of our body cells gets replaced in 10years cycle, i presume after that peroid less n less HCV copies can be find hiding in tissue somewhere (correct me if i am wrong!)...that article from Pathology that Malcolm mentioned is more than intriguing! I have found some online articles about post mortem HCV tests, but not on SVR groups. I am more than interested in long term health of SVR people (not to mention long term intereferon influence on immune sys)....

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GT 3 dg. 08-2012 / FibroScan: 5 kPa F1 / FibroTest: F0-1 A1 / SoC TX: PegInt 120mcg+Riba 1000mg UND from w8 relapse EOT+4w
01-2016 Sof+Dac+Riba UND from w8, SVR24!
mallani


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Matt,

I agree with Jill. Posting a list of conditions that could affect the immune system shows you have no concept of how patients deal with residual virus. Adding HIV and Herpes Simplex shows you have no understanding of Virology.

The idea that a deep tissue massage could 'dislodge' toxins and residual virus is ridiculous. It would be some massage to 'dislodge' a virus from a brain cell.

Misleading and factually incorrect posts give wrong information to our Members. Either confine yourself to acceptable posts or you will be banned.



__________________

Geno 1b, IL28B CT,  x3 prior relapser,  ex-cirrhotic, 75 yo, did 48 weeks with Victrelis/Peg./Riba.  VL 1.28m at start, UNDET. at 8 ,12 ,16 ,24 ,30  and 48 weeks.  EOT 15 Feb 2013 , UNDET. at EOT + 28 weeks. SVR!  Still Undet. at EOT +5 years

Malcolm
Cinnamon Girl


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Hi Matt, I know you`re researching this topic out of academic interest but please bear in mind that quoting stuff like this that you`ve read on the internet isn`t always helpful to our members who read this,  and could be seen as scaremongering.  Many of us can`t avoid things like medications for various conditions, or sometimes surgery or chemotherapy, and all of us will age!

Thanks, Jill

 

ps - I`ve edited your post , there`s no need to use such large font!

 



-- Edited by Cinnamon Girl on Saturday 2nd of March 2013 11:02:11 AM

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Jill 

(71 yo, lives in UK)

Was Gen 3a, 

24wks Peg Ifn/Riba, Sep 2010 - Mch 2011

UND @ Wk.4, UND @ EOT, 

SVR Nov 2011 --> Still UND @ EOT + 4 yrs.

 

 
DJ


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Well I have genotype 3 so I am only on riba and peg. It would just be nice to think after all of this it would be gone for good. It is just so hard knowing this virus is inside of me. I don't know how to explain it any more than that. I want to know that I can never ever make anyone else sick. I will always be careful for now on no matter what, but it would just be so nice to know it wasn't even possible to pass this on to someone else. Oh well. At least if it stops liver damage and I can live a fairly normal life all of this will be worth it. Dart #8 tonight! That will put me 1/3 of the way there.

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Genotype 3.  Treatment started on 1/11/2013 with Ribavirin and Pegatron.  Week 4 UND.  Week 12 UND.  Ended treatment on 6/28/2013.  Six months post treatment 12/04/2013 SVR.
Matt Chris


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smile

Hey Mallani

Did a little Research on this topic after you responded .

My first speculative thought on this was based on my intuitive senses, it was to get a deep tissue full body massage to lossen up any trapped toxins and trapped latent and hiding HCV and I will probably still get a few during my 12 week treatment.

But researching both HCV, HIV and Herpes simplex 1 & 2 a few things stand out.

The herpes simplex virus which can stay dormant or latent for months between breakouts hides in nerve cell near the basal ganglia (brain region) or near the spinal cord.

More importantly though the biggest factor on whether the virus will and can re-emerge is our bodies immune system in the cell bodies of neurons.

Today's Meds that render the HCV undetectable after treatment may indeed totally wipe it out, but why take the chance with going back to the bad habits of over indulgence.

I am not suggesting that this hypothesis is 100% correct but that it should be considered, if anything,  it emphasizes that once we achieve SVR we have to continue a healthy lifestyle that reflects boosting our immune system with a great diet and stress free life style.

Here are some additional reading from the Internet regarding the same topic.

Now, as long as your immune system is strong, it controls the number of hepatitis C viruses and hepatitis B viruses in your body. But, if for some reason, the efficiency of your immune system declines, beware! 
 When it comes to latent viruses, it's all about numbers. When your immune system is strong, the number of latent viruses in your body is low, and your risk is low. When your immune system is weak, the number of latent viruses in your body is high, and your risk is high.
 1. Aging. The efficiency of the immune system declines with aging.
 2. Medications, especially, long term, such as medications for lowering cholesterol, or lowering blood pressure. Medications can hurt the immune system, especially, those taken for months or even years.
 3. Surgery, chemotherapy. Surgery and chemotherapy put enormous pressure on the immune system.
 4. Radiation, such as X-Ray radiation, sunlight, or cell phone radiation. Radiation is known to change the efficiency of the immune system.
 5. Stress. Extensive research shows that excessive stress damages the immune system.
 
 

 



-- Edited by Matt Chris on Saturday 2nd of March 2013 05:38:17 AM



-- Edited by Cinnamon Girl on Saturday 2nd of March 2013 10:51:24 AM

__________________

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"

61 year old Geno type A1, F4 Cirrhotic, started 24 weeks on Harvoni 12-17-14 ,EOT-5 week = UND, 8-31-15 =UND , SVR-24 Baby YES! 
mallani


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Hi Deb,

Why? Patients that achieve SVR rarely relapse. It would be great if all traces of HCV could be removed from the body. Then we could use the word 'cured'. As I said, these results are based on SOC (Peg and Riba). Perhaps the new DAA's will totally eliminate the virus- time will tell. It's just an academic answer to Matt's question, and is really of no clinical importance. Don't be sadbiggrin



__________________

Geno 1b, IL28B CT,  x3 prior relapser,  ex-cirrhotic, 75 yo, did 48 weeks with Victrelis/Peg./Riba.  VL 1.28m at start, UNDET. at 8 ,12 ,16 ,24 ,30  and 48 weeks.  EOT 15 Feb 2013 , UNDET. at EOT + 28 weeks. SVR!  Still Undet. at EOT +5 years

Malcolm
DJ


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This made me sad :(

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Genotype 3.  Treatment started on 1/11/2013 with Ribavirin and Pegatron.  Week 4 UND.  Week 12 UND.  Ended treatment on 6/28/2013.  Six months post treatment 12/04/2013 SVR.
mallani


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Hi Matt,

Interesting question. It has been the subject of a lot of research.

I can't remember where it was published, but about a hundred patients (with different genotypes) were followed for up to 8 years after attaining SVR.  More than half showed residual virus in the blood (same as original genotype and wild-type virus).  Obviously the immune system had learned to cope with this tiny amount of virus. These patients had been treated with SOC, so resistant mutations (RAVs) were not an issue. There hasn't been time to assess the SVR's from triple Rx.  In the Geno 1 patients, particularly 1a, RAVs have been found up to 2 years after SVR. It is assumed these will gradually disappear or revert to wild-type virus.

Several years ago, around 2008, there was an article in 'Pathology'. There were about a dozen patients who had had an autopsy- all were post-SVR HCV patients , and had obviously died an unrelated death. HCV was found in brain cells (glial cells), lymphoid tissue (mostly Tcell lymphocytes), liver (not in hepatocytes but in stellate cells and macrophages), kidney (in renal tubule cells) and one or two others that I can't remember. There is ongoing debate about whether such viral particles can replicate and re-enter the blood. Again, these patients would have been treated with SOC. It'll be a while before we can compare these with triple Rx SVR's. I don't have an online subscription to 'Pathology' any more so it's hard to find back issues. I'll try.

Cheers.



__________________

Geno 1b, IL28B CT,  x3 prior relapser,  ex-cirrhotic, 75 yo, did 48 weeks with Victrelis/Peg./Riba.  VL 1.28m at start, UNDET. at 8 ,12 ,16 ,24 ,30  and 48 weeks.  EOT 15 Feb 2013 , UNDET. at EOT + 28 weeks. SVR!  Still Undet. at EOT +5 years

Malcolm
Matt Chris


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ashamed

Has anyone in our forum investagated on how one can expunge all remants of the HCV after one reaches undetectable?  

Also does the the HCV hides it self somewhere in the body?

Matt



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"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"

61 year old Geno type A1, F4 Cirrhotic, started 24 weeks on Harvoni 12-17-14 ,EOT-5 week = UND, 8-31-15 =UND , SVR-24 Baby YES! 
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