Hep C Discussion Forum

dustbear · Senior Member

RE: Liver friendly diet?

Kellie · Senior Member

Good for you Lisa to kick the habit and sugar too. I've been smoke free for 12 years now. Sugar? well I have a weakness for Reese PB cups. Maybe 1 every 2 weeks. I gotta live a little smile

Tig · Admin

I have also been a proponent of Milk Thistle ever since my first attempt and failure at treatment in 96 using Int. mono therapy. My hepa told me then that nothing else was available that might possibly help, except for MT. I began taking a standardized dose twice a day and continued through until starting treatment this May. My AST/ALT returned to normal levels shortly after starting it. Whether that was due to a chemical change or a physiologic process I don't know. But my liver biopsies have been fairly steady in comparison over the years, so I've always given some credit to the consistent use of MT. God knows I didn't take as good of care of my liver as I could've so something helped thankfully. There are many intelligent opinions here and elsewhere, so like most have said, if you believe it's right for you and your doctor is on board with it, then by all means take it. After reading the many reports and opinions, here and elsewhere, I chose to suspend my MT intake when I started triple therapy in May. I wanted to know that any blood tests were the result of my own body and the hepa meds. If there was a chance that anything was altered by the combination of MT and these meds, I felt it best to eliminate the possibility. Here is a report from the University of Maryland that I found interesting and it included a list of related studies and articles pertaining to MT use.

http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/milk-thistle

ios9 · Senior Member

Hi Dustbear,

One question : how do you know your liver is not performing well if you are symptome free ? because, as my ALAT and else are by now ok, I just do not know if my liver needs some anti inflammatory stuff or not ? do we still have liver inflammation if our transaminases are normal ?

Cheers

Do

dustbear · Senior Member

Yes you will find contradictory studies, I did. Some people it helped, some it did nothing for them.

I guess I need to clarify that I have 10 years of success with milk thistle with actual test results to back up my personal claim. When I briefly stopped using it, I experienced sx of the hep c virus and my liver almost stopped performing.

I have an old school md who is against natural supplements, a naturopath and hepatologist who support it and my own experience. There are lots of doctors with opinions, I don't always believe them and sometimes you have to go with your gut. My hepa said to keep taking all my supplements and make sure I take vitamin b and folic acid, but do not take any iron Be your own judge and jury.

Loopy Lisa · Guru

I generally ate a healthy diet with the exception of being a bit of a chocolate freak. I had high ALTS once when I was ill with a partial paralysis in 2005 that cured itself. Apart from that I have been in the normal range. I only take multi-vitamins (females can have iron in them as it is lost in the monthly cycle, this does not apply for males) Omega 3-6-9 one daily (especially as I smoked), I did take valerium for sleeping (no longer since I know what the problem is, but that was only when I really had trouble sleeping) and I had a low fat diet with lean meat and fish. I generally ate red meat once a month and I have a profound love for colour in my food, so mixed veg and salads daily. I did eat pasta, bread and rice but all wholemeal. I never really drank alcohol anyway, but I did enjoy the odd cola zero. I must admit I did love instant coffee, but I have switched to filter as I read it has more benefit.

I do know that each of us have different body types and different food needs. Some people crave carbs and others dairy. So it is really about finding what works for you.

Now i am trying a gluten free and reducing Dairy as both give me bloating and tummy pain. This is common for Hep patients. But I am in normal weight range, and I sport. We all crave sugar at points, so I ditched it, and it is stopping me gain weight whilst quitting smoking and I don't miss it.

Anyone wanting to eat healthy should really go to there Doctor for a healthy eating plan based on nutrition requirements. I don't have any other medical conditions to worry about, but not everyone is that lucky.....

Re- herbs: My doctor said they have no real value at all apart from making your pocket lighter. It is OK to take MT if you feel the need, but they can't cure you so worthless...... That reflects my opinion too. Sorry :)

-- Edited by Loopy Lisa on Friday 6th of September 2013 10:25:52 PM

mallani · Guru

Hi dustbear,

By all means take MT if you want to. The jury is still out on whether it has any real benefit, but for those who believe it does, go for it. Clinical Trials ban patients from taking it ( and other supplements) as it may decrease or increase liver enzymes. I don't know whether this article is correct, but it makes me dubious. Cheers.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120717162057.htm

Kellie · Senior Member

Hi, I guess I'll chime in and say I've taken mT for over 10 years along with some other herbs. I felt better taking it, even though there was not any mainstream big studies to support it. I worked in the nutritional supplement industry in my early years and had access to lots of personal stories of success (not of being cured, but having a better quality health). I believed taking it while I had the hep c was better than not taking it. Whether it kept my liver healthy I'll never really know, until there are definitive studies done, but I have no regrets of taking it. I don't know whether I'll take it after treatment. I may just stick with organic natural foods, laughter and daily movement to keep my body healthy

ps: just to clarify I stopped taking all my herbal supplements at the beginning of treatment biggrin I didn't want to mix so many things together and my NP told me to stop them also during treatment

-- Edited by Kellie on Friday 6th of September 2013 05:51:46 PM

-- Edited by Kellie on Friday 6th of September 2013 05:55:44 PM

-- Edited by Kellie on Friday 6th of September 2013 05:56:40 PM

-- Edited by Kellie on Friday 6th of September 2013 06:15:13 PM

Cinnamon Girl · Guru

Hi Dominique and dustbear, I`d just like to add that the subject of using Milk Thistle for Hep C has been discussed at length on this forum many times before, and people can always find contradictory studies on the internet to back up their point of view.

I can`t speak for Malcolm of course, but I agree that the jury is still out on whether MT has any beneficial effects, and if people want to take it it`s up to them. The general advice from doctors when on any type of treatment for Hep C is to avoid any herbal products, including Milk Thistle, but if anyone`s in doubt it`s best to check with your own medical team.

ios9 · Senior Member

Hi Malcom,

About AbbVie Trials, the only ban food are :

grapefruits

red oranges

oranges from Seville (the ones used to make marmela).

They say nothing about MT.

Every thing else is allowed. They new I was taking spiruline. If MT is not to be taken during the trial, they would have mention it, yes ?

Also it is often said that MT treats liver inflammation . (we are not speaking of killing the virus here)

"Fifty children with ALL were enrolled in the study and were randomized to receive milk thistle or placebo for 28 days. At the start of the study, all of the children had evidence of liver inflammation as measured by elevations in blood levels of the liver enzymes, aspartate amino transferase (AST) and amino alanine transferase (ALT). When the investigators performed liver function tests on the children at day 56 (28 days after receiving the herb or placebo), children receiving milk thistle had improvements in their liver enzymes compared with children receiving a placebo. Specifically, the group that took milk thistle had significantly lower levels of AST and a trend towards significantly lower levels of ALT".

Same sources as yours here :

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091215172325.htm

If MT can help reduce liver inflammation when Under chemiotherapy, I do not see how it would not have the same effect on us cirrhotics ?

Dominique

-- Edited by ios9 on Friday 6th of September 2013 01:24:16 PM

-- Edited by ios9 on Friday 6th of September 2013 01:29:38 PM

-- Edited by ios9 on Friday 6th of September 2013 01:30:34 PM

dustbear · Senior Member

mallani wrote:

Liversupport.com is a commercial site, aimed at promoting and selling it's 'remedies' and supplements. Don't believe all that you read, particularly the claims about Milk Thistle. Before trying any of these supplements, make sure it is approved by your doctor. Cheers

I agree there is a lot of information out there, and you do need to consider the source. I'd like to think the intention of a website is to be helpful, and of course everyone is promoting something.

I was promoting milk thistle from personal knowledge and usage. Milk thistle has been used for 2000 years as an herbal remedy, particular the liver. My naturopath prescribed it to me and my hepatologist supports it; as long as it is prescribed. I believe that this herb has kept my liver healthy for 10 years prior to my hep c diagnosis.

Kellie · Senior Member

Hi Ranelle,

I've had great success with juicing. Carrots, apples, celery and beets are my faves! The liver really loves this stuff. If you don't want or have a juicer there's a company called Evolution Fresh (originally Juice Evolution). They were bought up by Starbucks and now they are distributed US wide. The product is called Organic V. It's the best I've found. I do about 3 or 4 a week and it has kept my liver in tip top shape for over 20 years.

Going easy on the gluten has been a godsend for me also. biggrin Less stomach distress and migraines.

hugs,

Cinnamon Girl · Guru

Hi Ranelle, I think that`s the best thing to do, experiment and find out what foods and lifestyle suits you and makes you feel good. We are all different and our requirements vary, so it`s sensible to follow your own instincts and knowledge of how things affect you. All the best. smile

nurschic · Senior Member

Thank you everyone! I am very leary about Milk Thistle because I have heard as many bad things about it as I have heard good. I usually am not one who take medications or supplements unless needed. I feel that if I cant get it in my daily diet then my body really doesnt need it.

I have been reducing my gluten in my diet, increasing my veggies and lowering my fat intake. Some diets say to do low protein, but if I dont eat protein my muscles hurt because of the heavy lifting and lots of walking that I do at work. I guess I will continue to try different things and keep reading about different diets.....maybe I will find a good mix for me smile

ios9 · Senior Member

Kellie wrote:
I've had great success with juicing. Carrots, apples, celery and beets are my faves! The liver really loves this stuff. If you don't want or have a juicer there's a company called Evolution Fresh (originally Juice Evolution). They were bought up by Starbucks and now they are distributed US wide. The product is called Organic V. It's the best I've found. I do about 3 or 4 a week and it has kept my liver in tip top shape for over 20 years.
Going easy on the gluten has been a godsend for me also. Less stomach distress and migraines.

Hi Kellie, Ranelle ,

I have alway been eating/drinking all that too, also eating boilded french artichock as much as I can. It taste really nice too.

Artichock extract (liquid) are made by Labs and given by docs as liver treatment.

Funny enough it's the same family as Milk Thistle. I do not know why people prefer chemicals instead of natural foods which have helped people for centuries.

My doc said the other day that natural medecine is no more prepare by labs because it does not bring them enough money. Sad, no ?

Ranelle : it's meat proteines which are to be less taken, one can eat as much protein from eggs, and grains as you like, it does not arm. Problem with meat is that it stay a long time in the body, has lot of toxin too, and a part of that meat become rotten in our intestine.

Dairy is also to be reduced. Having been vegan since I am a teenage (for medical reasons, my liver was getting poisoned by meat) I know about diet quiet a lot, and not just by reading books, my body is telling me what he needs.

When one gives good healthy food to his body, body starts to become "intelligent" and let us know what he needs. Thruly.

Look, I have been tested cirrhosis last March, and right now all my transaminases are back to normal after only 14 weeks of no virus.

Any way, do what you think is good for you, if you are frightened to eat something, do not eat it, stressing yourself is the worth you could do.

Cheers

Dominique

-- Edited by ios9 on Thursday 5th of September 2013 09:10:29 PM

-- Edited by ios9 on Thursday 5th of September 2013 09:12:13 PM

Cinnamon Girl · Guru

Hi Ranelle, here`s a link to some basic diet advice, from the Hep C trust...

http://www.hepctrust.org.uk/Living+with+Hep+C/Caring+for+yourself/Diet/Diet

I think in general it`s good sense to have as healthy a diet as possible and include as much fresh and whole food as you can, while avoiding too much processed and refined products which aren`t high in nutrients and often contain high concentrations of salt and sugar. Keeping yourself well hydrated is also important for optimal health, and you could think about juicing as well for added nutrients.

I agree with Malcolm about Milk Thistle and other herbal products, it`s best to check with your doctor before taking any. I know many people do like to use herbs and believe in their healing and beneficial properties, so it`s your choice, but just bear in mind that some can do more harm than good, or will give you no benefit at all and just cost you a lot of money.

You`re young and already keep yourself fit, so keep nurturing your body and mind as best you can while you`re waiting for the next round of tx to begin. Wishing you all the best.

mallani · Guru

Hi Ranelle and dustbear,

Liversupport.com is a commercial site, aimed at promoting and selling it's 'remedies' and supplements. Don't believe all that you read, particularly the claims about Milk Thistle. Before trying any of these supplements, make sure it is approved by your doctor. Cheers.

dustbear · Senior Member

Hi Ranelle,

Check out www.liversupport.com

There is a tab on the right side called Food and your liver.

While you are on the website, search for milk thistle as they just posted an new article on the different types. They have a great enewsletter also.

Hope that helps.

Matt Chris · Guru

Hey Ranelle

Interesting topic, as I sought that answer for five years. The goal of healing while still having HCV viral load might be a reach if your LF tests results are still elevated.

In my opinion the goal with active HCV is to reduce and control Inflammation of the liver and associated organs.

That prospect indeed seems to be attainable by understanding our individual diet limitations and what causes our our inflammation.

Most of the time we can tell what caused the inflammation whether it be Food based or emotional stress and then adjust accordingly.

It seems to me Ranelle that the BIG THREE , Healthy nutritious foods, consistent exercise routine, and proper sleep will accomplish 95% of what is needed.

The other 5 % maybe require individual protocol of herbs and other supplements that may work for some and not work for others.

Please check out the Sticky thread called "Foods that your liver loves and Hates" in the Forum General Discussion area and please contribute to it because we all need more healthy variety for all members to choose from.

Matt

nurschic · Senior Member

Does anyone know of a liver friendly diet that will also promote liver healing? I have read a few about low protien, low sugar and low fat with herb supplements, but I am leary about some of the things that I have read. My Dr said just eat healthy. Any suggestions???

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