Hep C Discussion Forum

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Chatbox
Please log in to join the chat!
Hep C Discussion Forum -> Nutrition and Hydration -> Metabolomic Studies point the way for supplementation
Post Info TOPIC: Metabolomic Studies point the way for supplementation
Luckydog1953


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date:
RE: Metabolomic Studies point the way for supplementation
Permalink  
 

Ivan Danhof is the guy who is the best in aloe research.

Google him sometime, he has a lot of information out there about aloe.

Mike



__________________
/Michael Hudnall/
Huey


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 678
Date:
Permalink  
 

There is nothing on this planet that offers the amazing variety of healing benefits granted by aloe vera. In a single plant, aloe vera offers potent, natural medicine that:

Halts the growth of cancer tumors.
Lowers high cholesterol.
Repairs "sludge blood" and reverses "sticky blood".
Boosts the oxygenation of your blood.
Eases inflammation and soothes arthritis pain.
Protects the body from oxidative stress.
Prevents kidney stones and protects the body from oxalates in coffee and tea.
Alkalizes the body, helping to balance overly acidic dietary habits.
Cures ulcers, IBS, Crohn's disease and other digestive disorders.
Reduces high blood pressure natural, by treating the cause, not just the symptoms.
Nourishes the body with minerals, vitamins, enzymes and glyconutrients.
Accelerates healing from physical burns and radiation burns.
Replaces dozens of first aid products, makes bandages and antibacterial sprays obsolete.
Halts colon cancer, heals the intestines and lubricates the digestive tract.
Ends constipation.
Stabilizes blood sugar and reduces triglycerides in diabetics.
Prevents and treats candida infections.
Protects the kidneys from disease.
Functions as nature's own "sports drink" for electrolyte balance, making common sports drinks obsolete.
Boosts cardiovascular performance and physical endurance.
Speeds recovery from injury or physical exertion.
Hydrates the skin, accelerates skin repair.



__________________

  HCV Genotype 3a , now Psot-Tx was on S/riba. First VL was 5.8 mil on 7-5-13 then "und" at 3.8 weeks. 06/13/14 still und. off meds 3 days back on 7/29 Last pill 08/10/14 SVR+4

 
Luckydog1953


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date:
Permalink  
 

Aloe vera juice is very good for your liver and it does have antioxidant properties as well. Botanicals largely work by gene switching, causing systemic global metabolic changes in our systems. For instance botanical polyphenols work by activating the Nrf2 gene which switches on glutathione production. The molecules also work as antioxidants on a one-to-one basis of quenching single free radicals, but the real significance is how they switch on our native Redox systems though DNA activation.



__________________
/Michael Hudnall/
Luckydog1953


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date:
Permalink  
 

I looked at the stuff briefly and I found that it is an isolated botanical polyphenol. That is the normal path to drug development and that is what that study seems to be about, I think. I believe that they believe that the significance is that they can isolate, purify and standardize this single compound as an anti-viral drug. It could possibly be used as a prong in a multi-prong prescription drug attack.

That is an important distinction, though, because mono-therapies are mono-therapies, even in the herbal world. No herbalist in the history of any culture used single ingredient herbal formulas. Science has actually validated that principle in testing broad-based botanicals as antivirals of human viruses against human cells in the laboratory, and when they find the magic combination of botanicals, the synergy causes the activity to jump off the charts. And the science shows that the virus can mutate around herbal mono-therapeutic antivirals just like they can mutate around mono-therapeutic prescription antiviral drugs. The ninety% figure is a cause for alarm for me because that says to me that a mono-therapy using that herb alone would tend to produce a superstrain of HCV.



__________________
/Michael Hudnall/
Huey


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 678
Date:
Permalink  
 

  Is there any one who knows if Aloe Vera Juice Can re leave this Extreme oxidative stress/  I used this before Tx. and I felt a lot better,

I think this is the stuff,  I will be turning to it after treatment as well. This IS encouraging !



-- Edited by Huey on Tuesday 22nd of July 2014 07:33:44 AM

__________________

  HCV Genotype 3a , now Psot-Tx was on S/riba. First VL was 5.8 mil on 7-5-13 then "und" at 3.8 weeks. 06/13/14 still und. off meds 3 days back on 7/29 Last pill 08/10/14 SVR+4

 
Matt Chris


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1782
Date:
Permalink  
 

Also since this is a thread about Supplementation, whats happening with this Chinese herb SBEL1 that made great brags at this years EASL    Here is paragraph from the EASl release article.    

"SBEL1 is a compound isolated from Chinese herbal medicines that was found to inhibit HCV activity by approximately 90%. SBEL1 is extracted from a herb found in certain regions of Taiwan and Southern China. In Chinese medicine, it is used to treat sore throats and inflammations. The function of SBEL1 within the plant is unknown and its role and origins are currently being investigated."

I have not seen any further info regarding this, has anyone else?

matt



__________________

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"

61 year old Geno type A1, F4 Cirrhotic, started 24 weeks on Harvoni 12-17-14 ,EOT-5 week = UND, 8-31-15 =UND , SVR-24 Baby YES! 
Matt Chris


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1782
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hey Michael

Very Interested article, great to see that they have gone through the trouble to figure out the  metabolic pathways of HCV. Finding the correct balance of supplementation for each person can be dicey with all the mis-informtion on the net. In my case I can corroborate the Folic Acid deficiency because back in 2010 I had a full scale Spectracell analysis of my blood which showed a low amount folic acid in my lab sample. I used organic Brewers yeast to boost my folic acid and B vitamins. I heard of Hep Tech but was wondering if it was just another scam.

Mike, whats makes up your daily supplementation that personaly works for you? 

Have you ever heard of Liposomal technolgy with Vitamin C and Glutathione ?

matt 

 



__________________

"And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make"

61 year old Geno type A1, F4 Cirrhotic, started 24 weeks on Harvoni 12-17-14 ,EOT-5 week = UND, 8-31-15 =UND , SVR-24 Baby YES! 
Luckydog1953


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date:
Permalink  
 

Suzi, I think I remember you from the MedH*lp board years and years ago. Wonderful to have you still around.

Berkson was onto this way before anyone, but I think Alpha lipoid acid is turning out to be just one of the many pieces.

Dr. Berkson is a great guy and a great doc.

HepTech is good but another formula is coming out with clinical trials in Phoenix.

I think the key is dosing three times a day. Thats what worked for me and I reverted back to F0-F1 by fibroScan from mild cirrhosis.

I'm still infected but I'm waiting for the version without riba, that stuff knocked the hell out of me.

__________________
/Michael Hudnall/
jimbob


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 247
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Suzi -

None of the the many docs I saw mentioned suppliments as necessary. They may have told me what not to do like alcohol, but that was it. The only thing I took with any regularity wasi milk thistle and that was in spurts. And I tried to stay away from too much iron. ALT and AST rose occasionally, but were generally within limits. Overall, considering the number of years I had it, it didn't progress, if at all. Again,had I read this years ago, pretty sure I would have taken these.

__________________

jimbob: 64 y/o, GT 1A, F1-F2, diagnosed 1996. Since 1970. SOT 3.5 mil VL on 3/10/14 with Sov/Rib/Peg for 12 weeks. Tx naive. UND @ week 4,8,12. EOT 6/2/14.
suziq


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 327
Date:
Permalink  
 

As I decided long ago not to use interferon, I went to an integrative MD  Dr Burt Berkson in New Mexico. (Lots of articles about him on the internet) He gave alpha lipoic acid IV's for liver treatment.  In addition, he gave a list of supplements that would be helpful.  He did not claim to cure Hep C--merely to mitigate the damage done by Hep c.  HepTech also has a regimen they claim helps with the damage--about $250 a month.  Glutathione is mentioned in many articles on alternative supplements for Hep C.  I didn't try any of the bizarre ideas from some people who claimed to cure Hep c.

I went into treatment with enzymes below 100 and VL 800,000.  BUT, I still had progressed to mild cirrhosis after almost 50 years of Hep C.  I have toyed with the idea of supplements again now that I am SVR.  Maybe it is time to try them again. 

Thanks for the article.  Also, time to check on my Hep B immunization.  It has been about 10 years since that was done. 

sUZIq   



__________________

Geno 1A  Age 82 Treatment naive Cirrhotic Told I had liver disease in 1966. Diagnosed as Hep C 1999.Started Merck clinical trial with Riba on 9/9/2013 Week 1 and 2 <25  Weeks 4, 8, 12,16,18 UND.  EOT Jan 14,2014  EOT +12 UND   JULY 1 2014 EOT+24= SVR
jimbob


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 247
Date:
Permalink  
 

Dang, I wish I'd known this earlier!!

Actually, I do, from what little I understand of it, I might have have started taking B'12 complex, CoQ10, and folic acid suppliments years ago. Might have made some difference, who knows....

Seriously tho, thanks for the post Mike.

__________________

jimbob: 64 y/o, GT 1A, F1-F2, diagnosed 1996. Since 1970. SOT 3.5 mil VL on 3/10/14 with Sov/Rib/Peg for 12 weeks. Tx naive. UND @ week 4,8,12. EOT 6/2/14.
Luckydog1953


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Date:
Permalink  
 

Metabolomic studies are a relatively new type of clinical analysis that details the changes to a person's metabolism that certain diseases cause in the host. A Metabolomic study was performed by the University of Dublin in conjunction with Metabolome Inc. studying HCV infection and the changes to the Metabolome caused by the virus. The study involved running HPLC analysis on around 40,000 metabolites of healthy human liver cells (hepatocytes) in the lab, then infecting the cells with HCV and re-running the analysis at 24, 48 and 72 hours after infection. The changes were reflective of the changes to the DNA that HCV core protein and other viral proteins cause to the Genome.

What the study found was that several biosynthetic pathways are disrupted, including the Glutathione pathway, both Phosphatidylcholine pathways (PEMT and CDP-choline), the Methothioadenosine pathway (a native thiol-containing antioxidant system), and Beta oxidation of Fatty acids, including depletion of L-carnitine residues which escort fatty acids to the mitochondria for burning - setting the stage for steatosis, or fatty liver and extreme oxidative stress.

The study also found that extreme oxidative stress is further created by HCV replication "nests" or "rafts" which are set up in the mitochondrial envelope at the point of contact with the endosplasmic reticulum. This results in a multiplier effect on the escape of free radicals (Reactive Oxygen Species) from the mitochondria, a condition that is further exacerbated by the depletion of our body's physiological antioxidant system - the glutathione system which is especially prevalent in mitochondrial tissue. Thus, normal redox homeostasis is radically disrupted and skewed towards extreme oxidative stress.

Extreme oxidative stress is the trigger for fibrogenesis, which means the conversion of quiescent stellate cells in the liver into myofibroblasts that secrete collagen, or scar tissue.

So, in order to reverse the damage done by HCV, it would require plenty of phosphatidylcholine, N-acetyl cysteine for glutathione replacement and all the mitochondrial nutrients - complete B complex, CoQ10, betaine and Folic acid.

However, not a good idea while on treatment. Before and after, most definitely.

The question that remains to be answered is: can the trigger to fibrogenesis be turned even in the presence of the virus? Can collagen deposition be stopped and collagen be resorbed if redox homeostasis is achieved while still infected?

Someday maybe someone will do a clinical trial and investigate this promising line of study. The formulas that have developed based on this science have been quite promising. 

. 

I just read that again and that is a lot of science!

So, in normal English, the HCV virus is an envelope virus. That means that the virions, or infectious viral particles released into the blood from infected cells are coated with lipids to hide them from our immune systems. Interestingly, the release of virions from infected cells often seem to be coordinated in timing, sometimes releasing a trillion virions in a coordinated release.

So, the virus hits the DNA and hijacks lipid metabolism, but also other pathways. The HCV virus flourishes by creating extreme oxidative stress by degrading the mitochondria membrane and hijacking the biosynthetic pathway of our body's major protective antioxidant system, the Glutathione biosynthetic pathway. Glutahione runs many different antioxidant systems in our bodies.

When the study says that the virus hijacks 5-6 biosynthetic pathways, that means that the virus causes a flux of metabolites into those pathways, but strange lipids used by virions spin off (like lysophospholipids) and there is a resulting decrease in biosynthetic end product produced.

The way to correct this is to provide dietary metabolites for increased flow into the affected biosynthetic pathways, while also providing end product metabolites, when available.

The affected pathways illustrated in the Metabolomic study are all SAMe dependent, which is no surprise because SAMe is the most ready methyl donor for biosynthetic pathways and it is involved in roughly 40 biosynthetic metabolic pathways.

So, the theory is that if you provide the metabolites and end-products that are affected directly by HCV infection, then you should be able to reach Redox homeostasis. Redox homeostasis is scientifically defined as the balance between metabolic oxidants, which are generally created in, but escape from the mitochondria where glucose is oxidized into CO2 and water, and reductants, which are antioxidants like glutathione, antioxidant intracellular enzymes, small molecule non-enzymatic antioxidants like Vitamin C and dietary botanical polyphenols, to name a few.

I don't know if that cleared that up, but it is interesting to me, anyway.

Best regards! 



__________________
/Michael Hudnall/
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
Hep C Discussion Forum -> Nutrition and Hydration -> Metabolomic Studies point the way for supplementation
Legal Disclaimer:

THIS FORUM, IT'S OWNERS, ADMINISTRATORS, MODERATORS AND MEMBERS DO NOT AT ANY TIME GIVE MEDICAL ADVICE AND IN ALL CASES REFER ANYONE HERE TO SEEK APPROPRIATE MEDICAL ADVICE FROM THEIR DOCTOR.