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Post Info TOPIC: Preparing for tx: When to stop and restart supplements


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RE: Preparing for tx: When to stop and restart supplements
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>>I can just imagine free radicals roaming your body

They are nothing compared to the free radicals roaming our message board!  biggrin



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Tom

HCV GT1a since 1983.  1998 - Interferon/ribavirin null responder.  7 Jul 2014 - started 12 weeks Solvaldi/Oysio, VL 5.5 million.  UND at SOT+4, EOT+4, and EOT+12 weeks.



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I beleive lemon is fine, fresh is probably best, if this is a diabetes thing then I'll save my comment, as i know very little on that.



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53yr M 1a acq 12/83 cirr pre tx MELD 17  tx nv diag 1/29/12  tx S/O 3/5/14  trans list.

EOT 5/28/14 UND 6/12/14 SVR 8/29/14 MELD 14 dx HCC 9/5/2014 tumor ablation 9/24/14

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Gator Man wrote:

 So where does the new double dark chocolate gelato, which is now at my market, fit into this formula?


 It's indexed in the "Quality of Life" section. We do have to have some fun.  ;)



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66 y/o male - Geno 1b - F4 cirrhotic dx 2001 - 16 wk treatment w/ Sovaldi/Olysio/Riba - Und @ EOT+24 SVR

 



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I am sure many will challenge the lemon/diabetes 2  theory. Had to quit for the past week due to dental work....pulled tooth and lemon juice do not go well together. But my question about its effect on treatment is due to grapefruit juice adversely affecting treatment. So is it all citrus or just grapefruit juice? I do not want to become obsessive regarding  every little thing I eat, but if there are things proven to be detrimental I will avoid them. 

And Gator Man the gelato sounds like it could be a cure for grumpiness?

 



-- Edited by Mugsy on Thursday 25th of September 2014 06:49:56 PM

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62 y/o F     Genotype 1b  for 40+ years    cirrhosis    Started Harvoni  on 11/23  for 12 weeks       UND  12/22/2014     Ended treatment on Feb 15th.

12 week's EOT viral load      <15 



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Mugsy wrote:

So do you guys think the lemon juice in warm water at night would alter my results during treatment?

 


 I drink 1 1/2 gallons of decaf tea daily with one whole squeezed lemon per gallon. Is 1 1/2 lemons per day too much?



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Tx #2 - 24wks Harvoni /SOT 7-25-2015/UND@EOT,+12,+24,+52,+115wks = SVR-115

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mallani wrote:

 

Keep it simple. Try a normal diet, restrict sugar and salt if you like, and exercise in the sun.


 So where does the new double dark chocolate gelato, which is now at my market, fit into this formula?



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Geno 1b, compensated cirrhotic, 54 yo, prior null responder. Pre tx VL approx 595,000, tx with Sovaldi/Olysio (no Riba) started 1/8/14. VL 40 @ 2 weeks, UND @ 4 weeks. Still UND @ EOT + 1 year.

Gator Man SVR12, Dragon 0, Final Score.



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Hey Isiscat  Mugsy

I can't personally vouch for the diabetic reduction properties of lemon and water since I am not diabetic but I am a big proponent of using 1/2 lemon without rhine and 16 oz.filtered water with 10-15 drops of cayenne pepper extract liquified on high in my vitamix mixer upon first awakening to accomplish three things

(1) Alkalizing my body / raising my PH levels, very wise to keep our body less acidic    

(2) Awaking my blood stream by dilating blood vessels via the cayenne pepper extract.

(3) Flushing both the stomach/gastro tract/ liver of any left over crap from the nights sleep.  

BTW this is something I learned to do daily when i had Kidney stones, anyone with kidney issues should give this a try it might really help it did for me.

matt       



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Mugsy wrote:

So do you guys think the lemon juice in warm water at night would alter my results during treatment? I swear it is what caused my A1C to drop to 5.7. I really don't want to give it up. And thanks Matt Chris for introducing the idea...at least I think it was from one of your posts! I'll certainly ask my doctor on the 15th.

 


Wow, does that really work? My A1C was at 6.4 last I checked (6.5 is considered diabetic I am told) and I'm doing all I can to try to fix this without getting on Metformin.  I've heard that a bit of freshly squeezed lemon juice is good for you but wasn't sure what it is supposed to do.  

I can't imagine how that could interfere with tx, but grapefruit juice can, so good question.  



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Diagnosed in 2011, Incivek triple in 2011, tx discontinued, Genotype 1a, CT, VL 7mill, cirrhosis dx in 2012, age 67, waiting for new DAAs.



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So do you guys think the lemon juice in warm water at night would alter my results during treatment? I swear it is what caused my A1C to drop to 5.7. I really don't want to give it up. And thanks Matt Chris for introducing the idea...at least I think it was from one of your posts! I'll certainly ask my doctor on the 15th.

 



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62 y/o F     Genotype 1b  for 40+ years    cirrhosis    Started Harvoni  on 11/23  for 12 weeks       UND  12/22/2014     Ended treatment on Feb 15th.

12 week's EOT viral load      <15 



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mallani wrote:

Hi all,

Interesting title to this thread- how about adding........'why take supplements at all?' .

I've made my views very obvious on previous posts. Unless you're deficient in a various vitamin or mineral, why waste money on overloading your body with unusable doses of vitamins/minerals?  Until some results are published in a reputable journal/publication, I can't believe claims about various liver-friendly herbs and compounds.

I can understand the desire to be pro-active and 'help' your liver, and people can take what they like. I just think it's a waste of money.

I've read everything I can find about 'Oxidative Stress', 'Free Radicals' and 'Antioxidants'. It's all a bad soap-opera, written by the Supplement manufacturers. It's alarmist, and I can just imagine free radicals roaming your body intent on causing harm. Has the human body become that complex?  What happened to a normal diet with fruit and vegetables?  The experts will say 'These don't contain enough anti-oxidants, and you need megadoses from Compound X'. Rubbish.

Keep it simple. Try a normal diet, restrict sugar and salt if you like, and exercise in the sun.


 

 

Or in other words follow the KISS rule......Keep it simple stupid!

 

No offense  intended  towards anyone of course.

 

 

 



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53yr M 1a acq 12/83 cirr pre tx MELD 17  tx nv diag 1/29/12  tx S/O 3/5/14  trans list.

EOT 5/28/14 UND 6/12/14 SVR 8/29/14 MELD 14 dx HCC 9/5/2014 tumor ablation 9/24/14

In the 10K lakes State It's not about us but those around us.



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Hi all,

Interesting title to this thread- how about adding........'why take supplements at all?' .

I've made my views very obvious on previous posts. Unless you're deficient in a various vitamin or mineral, why waste money on overloading your body with unusable doses of vitamins/minerals?  Until some results are published in a reputable journal/publication, I can't believe claims about various liver-friendly herbs and compounds.

I can understand the desire to be pro-active and 'help' your liver, and people can take what they like. I just think it's a waste of money.

I've read everything I can find about 'Oxidative Stress', 'Free Radicals' and 'Antioxidants'. It's all a bad soap-opera, written by the Supplement manufacturers. It's alarmist, and I can just imagine free radicals roaming your body intent on causing harm. Has the human body become that complex?  What happened to a normal diet with fruit and vegetables?  The experts will say 'These don't contain enough anti-oxidants, and you need megadoses from Compound X'. Rubbish.

Keep it simple. Try a normal diet, restrict sugar and salt if you like, and exercise in the sun.



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Geno 1b, IL28B CT,  x3 prior relapser,  ex-cirrhotic, 75 yo, did 48 weeks with Victrelis/Peg./Riba.  VL 1.28m at start, UNDET. at 8 ,12 ,16 ,24 ,30  and 48 weeks.  EOT 15 Feb 2013 , UNDET. at EOT + 28 weeks. SVR!  Still Undet. at EOT +5 years

Malcolm



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Dzdayscomin wrote:

I was talking to my PCP last week about vitamins etc...because my Nurse coordinator said I should try taking some Vitamin D to see if it helps with the joint pain, I am taking 400 IU daily, he said that I should not take D any longer than a month unless it really makes a difference, because unlike other vitamins, D is absorbed by fat and excess does not pass thru like say a B vitamin would and you can actually build up toxic levels...now maybe that is with a damaged liver etc.... IDK  for sure, but he also recommended not taking fish oil either.

 

Just thought I'd share that.


I started tx and tested below 20 ng/ml for vitamin D which is deficient. I've been taking 2,000 IU vitamin D supplement since then and have climbed to 45 ng/ml (low normal) the last time it was checked. I'm due for another test along with the other labs when I have my six month post EOT exam this week. My doctor did mention that it took a lot of vitamin D to get to toxic levels, but doesn't want me to remain on it indefinitely. I'm a little leery of fat soluble vitamins and anything else that the liver has to process.

As an anecdotal example, my Aunt lived to 87 and took 3 to 4 dozen dietary supplements a day. My Grandmother lived to 98 and spent the last 20 years subsisting primarily on fried chicken, bacon and turnip greens. Without a ringing endorsement from the doctor regarding supplements, I think I'll steer clear and concentrate on a well rounded diet instead.

 



-- Edited by Gator Man on Monday 22nd of September 2014 10:38:09 PM

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Geno 1b, compensated cirrhotic, 54 yo, prior null responder. Pre tx VL approx 595,000, tx with Sovaldi/Olysio (no Riba) started 1/8/14. VL 40 @ 2 weeks, UND @ 4 weeks. Still UND @ EOT + 1 year.

Gator Man SVR12, Dragon 0, Final Score.



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For my whole journey here in the quest to cure my Hep C about 6-yrs 

 I didn't do any supplements 5-1/2 yrs. The doc's i was seeing where very against it (and I was not allowed anything during a 48 week trial in 2011-2012) Now While waiting for the Soldavi / Ledipivier  the (1) pill.  around April I decided  it's time I clean up my act and started very slowly with supplements.  Started using "Braggs" ORGANIC Apple Cider Vinegar 1 shot a day in water after eating something. Then that LiverCare ( mentioned below ) It was recommended by a Chi Kong instructor ( a Priest of some kind ) Did acupressure on me as well. Because of my joint pain I take Icelandic fish oil and tylenol. I added " PURE IMMUNE " The Chi Kong exercises and stretching had really helped my pain and was able to build muscle and loos about 30 lbs. My Chiropractor had me taking about 6 more things B's C's D's + 2 others ???. I re-thought that and going back to just a few things. I'm sure this is benefit to homeopathic TX and Immune support finding wat what hurt us is the confusing part.

for  Myself,  what I find strange in a good way is blood work this month  My doctor made comment on how well my liver is working considering what he know about my history.  Low platelets from 55 up over 70?  Liver enzymes down  mid 50s?  Although I'm told Viral Load  not a big concern at this point.  However in 2011 My VL was 9 Mil before treatment. in that time I had 72 weeks of TX so VL was UND at times, being off treatment 1-1/2 yrs now, Come to see my VL is just over 2 Mil?  I was under impression that VL goes back up to the level it was was before treatment. Anyone else hear that or comment on VL variations like that?

 

BS  

 

BS     

     



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Tig


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I had to see an ophthalmologist last week because I needed a post Tx exam and was due for new glasses. I'm also concerned because my father (88 yo) has both macular degeneration and glaucoma. He has been instructed to take a multi vitamin that claims some ocular benefits. It's called Ocuvite. I was told following my lengthy exam that I've also developed the early signs of both cataracts and glaucoma. I'm very interested now to understand how and if there really are going to be any benefits from these OTC supplements. These doctors sure endorse them. Glaucoma is easily controlled, as are cataracts, but macular degeneration concerns me. I've joined him for years as he receives injections into his eyes for that and it has only slowed it down. 

Tig



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63 yo GT1A - 5 Mil - A2/F3 - (1996) Intron A - Non Responder, (2013) Peg/Riba/Vic SOT:05/23/13 EOT:12/04/13 SVR 6+ years!

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Good point, Duane.  I have always been on the fence about the value of supplements in general but thought that at worst they were a waste of money. Now, I'm beginning to wonder if they could actually be harmful to people who have serious health issues, including cirrhosis.  Crap, another uncertainty to fret about.  lol



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Diagnosed in 2011, Incivek triple in 2011, tx discontinued, Genotype 1a, CT, VL 7mill, cirrhosis dx in 2012, age 67, waiting for new DAAs.



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I was talking to my PCP last week about vitamins etc...because my Nurse coordinator said I should try taking some Vitamin D to see if it helps with the joint pain, I am taking 400 IU daily, he said that I should not take D any longer than a month unless it really makes a difference, because unlike other vitamins, D is absorbed by fat and excess does not pass thru like say a B vitamin would and you can actually build up toxic levels...now maybe that is with a damaged liver etc.... IDK  for sure, but he also recommended not taking fish oil either.

 

Just thought I'd share that.



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53yr M 1a acq 12/83 cirr pre tx MELD 17  tx nv diag 1/29/12  tx S/O 3/5/14  trans list.

EOT 5/28/14 UND 6/12/14 SVR 8/29/14 MELD 14 dx HCC 9/5/2014 tumor ablation 9/24/14

In the 10K lakes State It's not about us but those around us.



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Isiscat2011 wrote:

I am hoping to start tx soon and was wondering when I should stop taking my supplements.  I know it is best not to take them (with the possible exception of vitamin D for those who need it) during tx and I expect the amount of time it takes to rid the body of them varies.  I thought this might be an interesting discussion for those who are planning to begin tx soon.  Any thoughts?

BTW, here is a list of the supps I presently take:

1) Vitamin D (daily)

2) CoQ10 (daily)

3) Fish Oil  (occasionally)

4) Liver Antioxidant (contains B6,B12, Milk Thistle, Folic Acid,Pantothenic Acid, Turmeric, Artichoke) (daily)

5) Probiotic  (as needed)

 


 Stop #4 , everything else is ok.  Ofcorse ask your Dr.,, What he is going to say is Dr, Lemmon 's discovery is too new and he can not go by that. you will have to make up your own mind.



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  HCV Genotype 3a , now Psot-Tx was on S/riba. First VL was 5.8 mil on 7-5-13 then "und" at 3.8 weeks. 06/13/14 still und. off meds 3 days back on 7/29 Last pill 08/10/14 SVR+4

 



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http://news.unchealthcare.org/news/2014/july/unc-researchers-discover-how-hepatitis-c-virus-persists-for-years

 

  After reading this , I came to the conclusion to refrain from any supplements. Post-Treatment



-- Edited by Huey on Monday 22nd of September 2014 12:45:20 AM

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  HCV Genotype 3a , now Psot-Tx was on S/riba. First VL was 5.8 mil on 7-5-13 then "und" at 3.8 weeks. 06/13/14 still und. off meds 3 days back on 7/29 Last pill 08/10/14 SVR+4

 



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My clinical trail coordinator said vit d & fish oil are ok.  All herbals should be stopped a few weeks before start.



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Long-term HCV, GT1a, IL28B C/T, T/G;  VL 2 mil.  Merck C-Edge Clinical trial  EOT 10/01/14. +24= UND



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I was planning to continue with CoQ10 post tx, because it is supposed to be good for the immune system, but just read that it can increase liver enzymes, alter blood sugar levels, and should not be used by people who have blood clotting problems (low platelets).  Darn!  I just stocked up on my supply. blankstare

So hard to know what is accurate information and what is not!   Any thoughts on probiotics?

I think I will stop taking everything but Vit-D (I have a slight deficiency) from here on out.    



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Diagnosed in 2011, Incivek triple in 2011, tx discontinued, Genotype 1a, CT, VL 7mill, cirrhosis dx in 2012, age 67, waiting for new DAAs.



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I took D and B-12 all through treatment as back then it was listed as things to help make treatment more effective. I think there was a study about b-12 making the old 3 drug tx more effective. One thing I stopped taking was Milk thistle and I will tell you why. I joined a internet group some time ago taking a compound that attacked  lipid coated virus. It did seem to work on the hep c's ability to replicate in some ppl. It didn't work at all if you took milk thistle with it. The group was disbanded because ppl insisted on taking supplements. The compound is listed as a protease inhibitor. Im only giving my opinion. the final say on this should come from your doctor. I still take D and B12 after treatment.

Best wishes for your treatment.



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Geno 1a null responder 2004 inter/riba   finished incivek,peg/riba 48 weeks May 17th 2014. undetect weeks 4-12-32.  EOT+7 undetect. EOT+24 SVR!!!!! EOT+!YEAR SVR!!!!



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I stopped taking supplements 2 weeks before starting therapy. I was taking a product called LiverCare which contains: Caper Bush, Chicory, Black Nightshade, Arjuna, Yarrow and Tamarisk and I was also taking milk thistle.

I don't plan on taking any supplements for at least a year after I finish therapy.



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Diag. with hep c in 1992; A3:F2;  GT 1a; IL28B CT; VL 900k, ALT 150, AST 100 on 8/5/2014; SOT 9/5/2014  S/O ---VL 127 after 6 days; VL detected on day 18 but < 15.; --> UND @ EOT+ 1 year SVR!



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I am hoping to start tx soon and was wondering when I should stop taking my supplements.  I know it is best not to take them (with the possible exception of vitamin D for those who need it) during tx and I expect the amount of time it takes to rid the body of them varies.  I thought this might be an interesting discussion for those who are planning to begin tx soon.  Any thoughts?

BTW, here is a list of the supps I presently take:

1) Vitamin D (daily)

2) CoQ10 (daily)

3) Fish Oil  (occasionally)

4) Liver Antioxidant (contains B6,B12, Milk Thistle, Folic Acid,Pantothenic Acid, Turmeric, Artichoke) (daily)

5) Probiotic  (as needed)

 



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Diagnosed in 2011, Incivek triple in 2011, tx discontinued, Genotype 1a, CT, VL 7mill, cirrhosis dx in 2012, age 67, waiting for new DAAs.

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