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Post Info TOPIC: Milk thistle and other supplements


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Milk thistle and other supplements
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yes obs, i drink vinegar water or have it on oatmeal .

can't eat a lot of stuff due to rosacea and eczema but hope my system changes up those things as i heal

maybe i'll try the cabbage with vinegar, can't eat too much salt either,



-- Edited by 5-1-18 on Tuesday 30th of October 2018 02:39:33 PM

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Gt:1a-36yrs.Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on3.6.18:.A1 activity. f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND.Eot 6/25=L.July=norm liverpanel.*13weeks=UND * 6 months =UND: CLUB ZERO



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WELL 5. I sure hope the milk thistle is the culprit and that you continue to have a trouble- free tummy

Its pretty amazing how quickly our body responds when we eliminate the allergin ...

I always think its best to ebb and flow with supplements that I take...(except magnesium glycinate...haha leg cramps suck)

Now that youre und your liver doesnt have to work so hard. and there are lots of liver friendly foods, lemon, garlic, artichoke that you can increase in your diet

I cant remember, do you eat vinegar? Someone on here doesnt ...anyhoo, if you do use vinegar, a kimchi (pickled cabbage and other veg) is super good...

livers like sour food



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61 y/o, Infected via transfusion Oct'83, GT-1a, F-4 cirrhotic,
tx Holkira pak/moderiba 12 weeks

3 years...post tx... successful dragon slayer



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obs, wow, that's a lotta work you go thru with your allergies. i'm so glad you have done so well with it all

mine aren't eppie pen bad, just skin rashes and sinus and stomach....and feet it seems.

i miss tofu so much toocry, along with a lot of fruits and veggies.

now i am trying smaller servings of a few things to see if they work out [shredded lettuce and shredded cabbage are the new things for the week].

but not taking milk thistle for a few days made a good impact on my stomach and feet, so i'm hoping that was the culprit .

5



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Gt:1a-36yrs.Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on3.6.18:.A1 activity. f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND.Eot 6/25=L.July=norm liverpanel.*13weeks=UND * 6 months =UND: CLUB ZERO



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cheddy, i took the milk thistle for over 15 yrs., i never even wondered about side effects at the time since i already had IBS and sinus allergiesblankstare

but i do feel better today after skipping a cpl days , if that is all it is i consider me lucky.. my feet didn't even hurt.

i've been changing a lot of things for a week, but stopping the milk thistle is when my symptoms calmed down.... so... we shall see.



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Gt:1a-36yrs.Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on3.6.18:.A1 activity. f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND.Eot 6/25=L.July=norm liverpanel.*13weeks=UND * 6 months =UND: CLUB ZERO



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Ya, its probably not a bad idea to test for food allergies...My worst one is soy...noThey use that stuff in EVERYTHING from clothes and dog collars to most baked goods to jarred sun dried tomatoes or artichoke hearts, salad dressings...to skin/hair products and candles to laundry soap... its a really hard one because its hidden everywhere...

I havent been to a restaurant for more than 10 years. Luckily my son went to culinary school and Im also a good cook so we dont miss much in the good eating department ...(except I really miss miso soup)

I was surprised about the beef because I also rarely ate it until I read my bullion jar again...I had read it looking for soy and thought it was safe...

Unfortunately for me, none of my symptoms are controllable with regular allergy meds, (except the epipen for an anaphylactic reaction to soy lecithin in chocolate one scary time) , just avoidance and some occasional detoxing drops through my god-send of a Dr.

I also am so grateful to be cured of the horrible HCV. These on-going things are much easier to cope with when one isnt also battling a morphing mutating monster.



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61 y/o, Infected via transfusion Oct'83, GT-1a, F-4 cirrhotic,
tx Holkira pak/moderiba 12 weeks

3 years...post tx... successful dragon slayer



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Well dang. I thought it was a cure all. Seriously, I took it and don't recall any problems. Everyone is different though. Does calcium magnesium help?



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GT2a, VL 681,500, Less than F1, Treatment Naive

12 wks Sovaldi/Ribavirin,SOT 2/25/16, EOT 5/17/16

UND at 2,4,8 and 12 wks during treatment but ribavirin crazy.

ALT/AST normal EOT

SVR12 8/13/2016!!!!!!!!! I WON!!

EOT 6 Months 11/12/2016 CURED



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i never looked any of this up before cos for me it was saving my liver; but i just did today to make sure it was still something i wanted to take. Since i am so sensitive it is worth taking into account and making sure for me.

Side effects associated with oral ingestion of milk thistle include:

  • Gastrointestinal problems but are rare (e.g;nausea,diarrhea,dyspepsia, flatulence, abdominal bloating, abdominal fullness or pain,anorexiaand changes in bowel habits)(R).
  • Headache(R).
  • Skin reactions (pruritus, rash,urticaria, andeczema)(R).
  • Neuropsychological events (e.g asthenia, malaise andinsomnia)(R).
  • Arthralgia (pain in joint)(R).
  • Rhinoconjunctivitis (nasal congestion, runny nose, sneezing etc)(R).


-- Edited by 5-1-18 on Sunday 28th of October 2018 07:28:44 PM

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Gt:1a-36yrs.Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on3.6.18:.A1 activity. f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND.Eot 6/25=L.July=norm liverpanel.*13weeks=UND * 6 months =UND: CLUB ZERO



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i've also got some of this to try eventually. i was looking for a supplement to control cortisol that my skin wasn't allergic to. but this seems to do more than curb cortisol so it sounds interesting to me to get my brain back a bit more.

Phosphatidylserine (PS) is a natural phospholipid that is an essential component of cell membranes. Cogni-PSョ promotes brain function by helping maintain neuronal membrane fluidity (cell to cell communication), which is essential for cognition, mental performance, attentiveness and reaction time.



__________________

Gt:1a-36yrs.Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on3.6.18:.A1 activity. f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND.Eot 6/25=L.July=norm liverpanel.*13weeks=UND * 6 months =UND: CLUB ZERO



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the next supplement i plan to try during my vacation is L theanine

Most known for helping people relax, L-theanine has many other potential health benefits, including:

  • Anxiety and stress-relief. ...
  • Increased focus. ...
  • Better immunity. ...
  • Blood pressure control. ...
  • Improved sleep quality. ...
  • Sinusitis relief.

So i'll be reporting on this. claritin makes me gain weight and seems to make my feet hurt moreblankstare

i'm also giving the milk thistle a break since my feet have been hurtin, and that is something new i added recently.

trial and error is my way to go with these things.

the magnesium at bedtime worked ok for me this day.



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Gt:1a-36yrs.Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on3.6.18:.A1 activity. f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND.Eot 6/25=L.July=norm liverpanel.*13weeks=UND * 6 months =UND: CLUB ZERO



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obs, i was thinking of testing food allergies next year also.

i just cut out porkhmmrecently to see if that helps my gut and feet... so far no change, but it may be too soon to tell.

i am right now changing up a bunch of stuff so we'll see.

i haven't eaten beef in awhile but plan to soon

i had to take a mini dose of claritin most of the summer for allerigies.

for me it's been allergies all my life, and foot pain for about 6yrs.

i'm so thankful to be cured and now i can focus on some of these other annoying things.

i'm also thankful i can still work becos the pains are not constant.

but, cured is good



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Gt:1a-36yrs.Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on3.6.18:.A1 activity. f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND.Eot 6/25=L.July=norm liverpanel.*13weeks=UND * 6 months =UND: CLUB ZERO



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I suffered with terrible crippling arthritis too. After treatment, it got a little better but it was still pretty painful most days.. I also have pretty bad allergic reactions to a number of foods and environmental things...although my allergies got somewhat less severe they still dictate my life.

A few months ago, I was getting my Dr to check if I was reacting to pistachio nuts (my legs were frighteningly swollen after I ate some Turkish baclava)....I asked him to check for other common foods that I might be allergic to....anyhoo....short story long, I am very allergic to beef and pork...hmmI didn't eat a lot of those meats but I used a beef bullion in every sauce, stew, gravy etc...so even if I was eating chicken, I was still getting some beef...

...Now, I realize you arent talking about allergies here

but although I was looking for relief/understanding of my immediate, gastrointestinal and immune system disruption type of reactions .....(which I got)

about 2 weeks after I eliminated beef/pork, I all of a sudden realized that my arthritis was also about 75% less....some days I dont have any swelling or painsmile

Both my allergies and my arthritis came from my having HCV for 3 decades

So, Im now wondering if your arthritis could also be made worse by some common food and could you get a Dr to test you for allergies?

A



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61 y/o, Infected via transfusion Oct'83, GT-1a, F-4 cirrhotic,
tx Holkira pak/moderiba 12 weeks

3 years...post tx... successful dragon slayer



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Karyl wrote:

Decided only the Havoni, PPI and bp meds. I hurt something awful from the arthritis thing I have going and and gonna check w my Dr tomorrow when I call to check in if my glucosamine and chondroitin is ok to take. Also the tramadol. First pill is down the hatch w lots of water and 3 cups of coffee! Thx everyone!


hey karyl, did the doc ok these things for you?

i've started on the magnesium citrate but i'm post tx; but i will let you know how it works in case you don't want to experiment while on tx.

5



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Gt:1a-36yrs.Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on3.6.18:.A1 activity. f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND.Eot 6/25=L.July=norm liverpanel.*13weeks=UND * 6 months =UND: CLUB ZERO



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hubby was allowed the vicoprophen for his arthritis, i was allowed the valium for sleep. we didn't take it at the same time as the pill . we both took harvoni.



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Gt:1a-36yrs.Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on3.6.18:.A1 activity. f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND.Eot 6/25=L.July=norm liverpanel.*13weeks=UND * 6 months =UND: CLUB ZERO



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Karyl I feel your pain!

Good luck getting the glucosamine/chondroitin approved by your doc. Thats another one I want to add back in as soon as possible when Im done with treatment or 12 weeks after.

Thank you for posting about these supplements, this is how we help each other and remind each other what best practices are and what we can negotiate with our doctors on etc.

Funny thing is? I think my joint pain is getting better! I had to tough it out for the first few weeks but it wasnt until you mentioned glucosamine/chondroitin that I remembered I havent taken it in about eight weeks now and Im actually feeling OK.

I sincerely hope the same for you or even better! Hang in there

I had to stop taking my beloved SAM-e and Im very eager to get back on that train as soon as Im done with treatment or possibly 12 weeks after.

SAM-e helps with joint pain AND depression it is a beautiful wonderful over-the-counter medication but its terribly expensive. So Im on a break from it for right now and will start it back up as soon as I can.



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F, 51, GT3, HCV since 1989, no alcohol since 1999, Fibrosis score F0-1 (.36), VL 216,000, ALT 23, AST 26, Epclusa SOT 7/26/18 EOT 10/18/18. Thank you God.



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Decided only the Havoni, PPI and bp meds. I hurt something awful from the arthritis thing I have going and and gonna check w my Dr tomorrow when I call to check in if my glucosamine and chondroitin is ok to take. Also the tramadol. First pill is down the hatch w lots of water and 3 cups of coffee! Thx everyone!

__________________

65 yo 40+ yrs geno 1a

5 weeks VL undetected. AST 16 ALT 10

VL 5,930,000 AST 29 ALT 29

Fibroscore .40 Stage F1-2

Treatment naive, starting Harvoni 9/23/18 8 weeks

T



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Karyl,

I did Chinese medicine for 15 years prior to starting my treatment.I took herbs and combinations of herbs.When I was feeling really bad (I called her the witch doctor) would put together a bunch of herbs to brew as a tea.It looked like something the dog yacked up after eating half of the lawn.It even contained snake skin.Now I'll admit that the stuff made me feel a whole lot better.It enabled me to work and function for years,but it was no cure.I stopped everything a week before I started my treatment.I don't even want to take an asprin for fear of messing up the DAA.Let the drug do it's job,hydrate and rest.



__________________

62 yo male GT 1b/2 ALT 60 AST 51 V/L 985,000 Fibro A2 F 3/4 began 12 wks Mavyret 9/13/2018

6 wk labs ALT 12 AST 18 V/L NOT DETECTED EOT 12/05/2018 V/L NOT DETECTED

12 Wk post EOT ALT 11 AST 16 V/L NOT DETECTED Thank you GOD

Take that stupid dragon



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Ok, I'm back!wink

hahahha Tig! - ... but, but, butt ...!

Lamassu - Hi stranger!, nice to see a few words from ya - talk more, missing you!

Karyl - I love, love your kitty pic/avatar! And, nice job on the sig line BTW, it came in a couple of tries and fits and starts but it reads very well indeed now - sig. lines are always a welcome bit of info to have at a glance - helps so much in ongoing conversations to have the pertinent reminders so easily at hand. So, HAD your doc already told you to go ahead and start the Harvoni just as soon as it arrived to you this weekend? I am assuming so.

Hoodie and 5 and I and Tig and Lamassu (and I bet many others around here), including (now) Karyl, all seem to have reached consensus that milk thistle might best be stopped while on treatment. As Tig outlined, thistle itself "may" cause a drop in a ALT, that is why thistle should be dropped while on treatment, so your ALT levels (while on treatment) can be looked upon knowing they are not being influenced by any effect of the thistle, but rather your ALT changes are being affected by treatment. It is possible some docs will (and some docs will not) discourage you from taking other certain sups, but it always needs to be discussed between them and you, quite thoroughly.

If this info helps at all - just on principal (and so I would feel I had covered all bases in not interfering with my treatment) i stopped all sups when i went on treatment. I made SURE to wean myself down and off anything I was on, and some I was on very longstanding prior, and I made sure to wean myself off them a while before i started treatment. They knew everything I was and was not on. During treatment I found a growing need and wish to be back on some of my certain sups - mainly glucosamine/chondroitin - I expressly discussed my new wish with the doc and sought permission to go back on the gluc/chondroit. They let me, but they double-checked everything "extra" I took, before and during treatment, as i was in a trial. Milk thistle was never one of the sups i had ever taken in the past or now, but i do know it is popular. My ALT's (while on treatment and since cure) went beautifully low and normal, and they got increasingly more beautiful in my first year+ of cure and still remain to stay incredibly low!- I say I am cured and my liver has probably all long-finished healing itself and my liver function for all extents and purposes couldn't be better - I have NO NEED to be taking milk thistle now, as far as I have considered. wink

It's very good you have some company here Karyl, fellow Harvonians (past and present) at various stages of cure-ness to be able to draw info from, like Iris and 5 whom you have already met (and of course all the rest of us various "-ians" too, who only want to help). There are so many successful Harvonians and their footsteps to follow here. I hope you have been or will be reading the old Harvonian threads, like the "All Aboard the Harvoni Train" thread.biggrinC.



__________________

HCV/HBV 1973. HBV resolved. HCV undiagnosed to 2015. 63 y.o. F. Canada.

GT3a, Fibroscan F3/12 kPa - F4/12.6 kPa, VL log 7.01 (10,182,417), steatosis, high iron load.

SOF/VEL with/without GS-9857 trial - NCT02639338.

SOT March 10 - EOT May 5, 2016 - SOF/VEL/VOX 8 week trial.

(SEE UPDATES IN BIO)

Tig


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Hoodietree wrote:

Heres the way I look at it, and I got this from pulling it right out of my butt so take it for what its worth:

覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧

I知 not touching that with a 10 foot pole, lol! I値l just leave this right here and move on...

E5A9DD67-3C5E-4B71-B149-7BE322DAC09F.png



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Tig

62 yo GT1A - 5 Mil - A2/F3 - (1996) Intron A - Non Responder, (2013) Peg/Riba/Vic SOT:05/23/13 EOT:12/04/13 SVR 5+ years!

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Heres the way I look at it, and I got this from pulling it right out of my butt so take it for what its worth:

The virus wants to live it hides and replicates and does all kinds of weird **** to ensure its own survival. We shouldnt be doing anything to minimize that while on treatment. We want the virus to rear its ugly head so we can kill it dead.

I will wait till 12 weeks SVR to resume my milk thistle because I dont want to be in that unlucky 10% of people for whom these medicines do not work. So Ill take it exactly as directed and I will stop taking herbs that might jeopardize my treatment prospects.

I saw your post where you said youd give the milk thistle a rest while on treatment I support that 100%. Good call.



-- Edited by Hoodietree on Saturday 22nd of September 2018 11:24:34 PM

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F, 51, GT3, HCV since 1989, no alcohol since 1999, Fibrosis score F0-1 (.36), VL 216,000, ALT 23, AST 26, Epclusa SOT 7/26/18 EOT 10/18/18. Thank you God.



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Karyl,

I see you have had a few important last minute questions (on a couple threads, including the Harvoni trian thread) that really would be best decided by or at least run by your doc (for his final words), and I DID say (over in your other thread) ... "Can't afford treatment" ... that before you start your Harvoni it would be wise to double-check with him for any last minute things, (things on your end or his). It sounds as though, one way or another, and via the pharmacist you spoke with as well, you will and have got most things figured now, but still ... it is always good to touch base with your doc just before you start your harvoni - (unless he already told you to just go ahead and start) - just to allow him the opportunity to verify that you are ready to start and he has no further instructions for you.

Gotta run. Talk later. C.



__________________

HCV/HBV 1973. HBV resolved. HCV undiagnosed to 2015. 63 y.o. F. Canada.

GT3a, Fibroscan F3/12 kPa - F4/12.6 kPa, VL log 7.01 (10,182,417), steatosis, high iron load.

SOF/VEL with/without GS-9857 trial - NCT02639338.

SOT March 10 - EOT May 5, 2016 - SOF/VEL/VOX 8 week trial.

(SEE UPDATES IN BIO)



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Makes sense . My doctor has a list of my meds and supplements and said nothing. I will stop the supplements during treatment tho.

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65 yo 40+ yrs geno 1a

5 weeks VL undetected. AST 16 ALT 10

VL 5,930,000 AST 29 ALT 29

Fibroscore .40 Stage F1-2

Treatment naive, starting Harvoni 9/23/18 8 weeks

T

Tig


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From Gilead:

典ell your healthcare provider about all of the medicines you take, including prescription and over-the- counter medicines, vitamins, and herbal supplements. HARVONI and other medicines may affect each other. This can cause you to have too much or not enough HARVONI or other medicines in your body. This may affect the way HARVONI or your other medicines work, or may cause side effects. Keep a list of your medicines to show your healthcare provider and pharmacist.



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Tig

62 yo GT1A - 5 Mil - A2/F3 - (1996) Intron A - Non Responder, (2013) Peg/Riba/Vic SOT:05/23/13 EOT:12/04/13 SVR 5+ years!

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i too believe milk thistle gave me the time i needed to get to the harvoni train.

i quit all supplements while on tx , only tums when i needed one; at the prescribed 4 hour before or after harvoni pill

welcome aboard the harvoni treatment train karyl



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Gt:1a-36yrs.Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on3.6.18:.A1 activity. f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND.Eot 6/25=L.July=norm liverpanel.*13weeks=UND * 6 months =UND: CLUB ZERO



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What does the Dr who is prescribing the Harvoni say? I was told to stop all herbal supplements while on Epclusa. Daily multivitamin was OK. I did a quick PubMed search and saw no evidence that milk thistle is beneficial nor that it was contraindicated during tx with Harvoni but you should really be following your doctor's advice.

Edit: sorry Tig we posted at the same time I defer to your advice.






-- Edited by lamassu on Saturday 22nd of September 2018 06:57:10 PM

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Male, 66, Dx 1990, GT 2a/2c. Pre-tx VL 11,500,000, ALT 10, AST 18, F3, 12.4 kPa. Rx: 12 weeks Epclusa, SOT 3/8/18, EOT 5/30/18. Week 2 VL 50, ALT 12, AST 21. Week 10 VL not detected, ALT 12, AST 18. EOT + 12 weeks: VL not detected, ALT 11, AST 19. EOT + 24 weeks VL not detected, ALT 9, AST 24.

Tig


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Carol,

I僧 not sure where the doctor is getting his information, but supplementation is, as a rule, strictly advised against while on treatment. The reason being, many of these supplements can interfere with the action of the treatment drugs. Milk Thistle specifically is one to avoid, because it alters the liver enzymes in a manner that disguises the true effect on your results. It can lower your ALT and AST, which isn稚 exactly the true measure of your enzymes. I took MT before treatment and have recently resumed it for its antioxidant benefits. When we take MT and other hepatic supplements, we alter the testing parameters. During treatment, we want our tests to provide the actual function as related to treatment, not altered by the supplement. There is plenty of information available regarding the avoidance of supplements during treatment and for the 12 weeks afterwards. You want the results based on reality, not the potential changes, good, bad or different, from added supplements. A multivitamin, generally without iron, is all you need to be taking during treatment. I hope this helps you with your decision.



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Tig

62 yo GT1A - 5 Mil - A2/F3 - (1996) Intron A - Non Responder, (2013) Peg/Riba/Vic SOT:05/23/13 EOT:12/04/13 SVR 5+ years!

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I'm a firm believer that taking milk thistle daily for over 20yrs has helped my liver cope with the Hep c. I'm starting on Harvoni TOMORROW!! Getting on that train. Dr. Andrew Weil suggests that everyone with liver problems should take it ESPECIALLY those us on treatment. Thoughts? Should I continue my vitamin and herb regimen while on treatment? I only take milk thistle and turmeric and glucosomine and chondrotin for the arthritic condition my drs feel is because of my Hep c. I also take fish oil vit e and b-12. Does anyone know if this is ok?



__________________

65 yo 40+ yrs geno 1a

5 weeks VL undetected. AST 16 ALT 10

VL 5,930,000 AST 29 ALT 29

Fibroscore .40 Stage F1-2

Treatment naive, starting Harvoni 9/23/18 8 weeks

T

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