Hep C Discussion Forum

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Chatbox
Please log in to join the chat!
Hep C Discussion Forum -> Post Treatment -> Re infection
Post Info TOPIC: Re infection
5-1-18


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1302
Date:
RE: Re infection
Permalink  
 

iris, i had to tell my sister twice in text before she gave me a short "oh thank God"... that's it.... but she had pages of her woes.hahaha

i have backed off from her a lot and know when to shut the texting off now; but it does feel sad when ppl aren't able to care about what another is going thru cry

so glad we have our forum here...



__________________

Gt:1a-36yrs .Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on 3.6.18:. A1 activity.  f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND. Eot 6/25=L.J*13weeks=UND * 6 m =UND: CLUB ZERO.1yr.=0
Iris Dragonfly


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1166
Date:
Permalink  
 

oh, thanks for that Tig. Seems my mosquitoes bite me over and over. They must be awfully hungry.

Oh Hoodie...my bad, I meant Mr.*&$@# truly. You know what he said after I exclaimed I just took my last pill?.... "eh" seriously??? 

 



__________________

in the silence of the woods, you will not be alone- Chief Seattle

60 years on planet, Female, diagnosed 1978 as non-a non-b, VL 8mill+, Fibro f-1f-2, Genotype 1a, treatment naïve....UNTIL 7-01-18  !!!! started Harvoni 12 weeks. :)

4 weeks=UND, 8 weeks=UND, 12 weeks=UND (EOT= 09-23-2018)
Hoodietree


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 379
Date:
Permalink  
 

Interesting stuff Tig. That mean old HCV was bullying all of our poor little healthy gullible cells. Seeing that illustrated in your avatar really brings it home. I am so grateful I was able to get treated. Sooo grateful to all of yall here as well.



__________________

F, 51, GT3, HCV since 1989, no alcohol since 1999, Fibrosis score F0-1 (.36), VL 216,000, ALT 23, AST 26, Epclusa SOT 7/26/18 EOT 10/18/18. Thank you God. 
Hoodietree


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 379
Date:
Permalink  
 

Iris Dragonfly wrote:

My husband uses any needle or safety pin he comes along to remove splinters, I have done the same but I usually heat the tip. I'm sure they are all over the place and I throw them away when I find them. 

Ummm, your husband should consider NOT EFFING DOING THAT. 

On the plus side, youre calling him your husband again and not Mr. $&@$&@!, so that sounds like progress



__________________

F, 51, GT3, HCV since 1989, no alcohol since 1999, Fibrosis score F0-1 (.36), VL 216,000, ALT 23, AST 26, Epclusa SOT 7/26/18 EOT 10/18/18. Thank you God. 
Tig


Admin

Status: Offline
Posts: 9270
Date:
Permalink  
 

Iris, 

It has been debated for decades and they once thought it possible, but now they’re sure the little blood suckers can’t do that. Simply, they don’t have the means to do it. Here‘s an article that explains what I’m talking about. 

I feel your pain regarding these winged devils. I live in the Everglades and I can tell you stories of being lifted off the ground and eaten alive by them! They laugh at repellent and rather enjoy it, like gravy. I’m a mosquito magnet!

Mosquitoes and HCV



__________________

Tig

67yo GT1A - 5 Mil - A2/F3 - (1996) Intron A - Non Responder, (2013) Peg/Riba/Vic SOT:05/23/13 EOT:12/04/13 SVR 9+ years!

Hep C FAQ   Lab Ref. Ranges  HCV Resistance

Signature Line Set Up/Abbreviations   Payment Assistance

 
Iris Dragonfly


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1166
Date:
Permalink  
 

ok yea...thanks Nathan, pretty sure I did not use it the whole time, only if something is stuck... had an almond sliver, ouch! and I crammed the water pic in my mouth without thinking.
and Tig... I had, well let's say originally, heard (and that may have been long ago ) that the virus was fragile and only could live up to 3 days outside a host, and that water and air were likely to give it less chance to survive. Why do they change the info? updates I suppose. And so how is it not able to be transferred by mosquito then?? We have a new mosquito that can transfer, Zika virus, dengue fever, yellow fever and chikungunya. https://www.glacvcd.org/vector-information/mosquitoes/invasive-mosquitoes/ They like to bit in the day and like to live indoors. I have been chewed alive in the last couple weeks, pretty sure it's these vectors. I'm constantly dumping water and out and the pond has mosquito fish so I don't know where they might be thriving but it is getting pretty miserable. I already had west-nile virus in 2005.
I appreciate you all trying to ease my mind, the what-if's are a terrible bug.
here's an additional bug in my brain...My husband uses any needle or safety pin he comes along to remove splinters, I have done the same but I usually heat the tip. I'm sure they are all over the place and I throw them away when I find them.
welp... there's the worry wort for the day...thanks

bb, Iris



__________________

in the silence of the woods, you will not be alone- Chief Seattle

60 years on planet, Female, diagnosed 1978 as non-a non-b, VL 8mill+, Fibro f-1f-2, Genotype 1a, treatment naïve....UNTIL 7-01-18  !!!! started Harvoni 12 weeks. :)

4 weeks=UND, 8 weeks=UND, 12 weeks=UND (EOT= 09-23-2018)
Tig


Admin

Status: Offline
Posts: 9270
Date:
Permalink  
 

Actually, there's evidence the virus can live on surfaces for up to 6 weeks! It's a very hardy virus. I'm not aware of much information on actual exposure via these means, however.

We have a lot of information here on the forum pertaining to the subject. Those interested in learning more, can use our search function at the top and start reading the various posts. It's still rare to re-expose yourself to the virus through these means. Of course you never want to share any of the items mentioned in Nathan's post with others, intentionally or accidentally. Always consider the risk to others...



__________________

Tig

67yo GT1A - 5 Mil - A2/F3 - (1996) Intron A - Non Responder, (2013) Peg/Riba/Vic SOT:05/23/13 EOT:12/04/13 SVR 9+ years!

Hep C FAQ   Lab Ref. Ranges  HCV Resistance

Signature Line Set Up/Abbreviations   Payment Assistance

 
5-1-18


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1302
Date:
Permalink  
 

iris, i lost track . what are your stats on lab work of late? did they do a viral load on you yet?



__________________

Gt:1a-36yrs .Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on 3.6.18:. A1 activity.  f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND. Eot 6/25=L.J*13weeks=UND * 6 m =UND: CLUB ZERO.1yr.=0
nathanW


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 14
Date:
Permalink  
 

hi iris , google says and i quote :

The hepatitis C virus can survive outside of the body for up to 3 weeks.

and in saying that not trying too stress you out ,

Chronic hepatitis C patients are advised not to share toothbrushes, razors, nail-scissors or other personal articles that potentially may have been in contact with blood, with others. This study examines the contamination of toothbrushes in patients with chronic hepatitis C as a model for a possible unconventional way of transmission. In 30 patients with chronic hepatitis C, 2 mL of saliva (before and after toothbrushing) and the toothbrush rinsing water after toothbrushing were tested for HCV-RNA. Saliva before and after toothbrushing was positive for HCV-RNA in nine (30%) and 11 patients (36.7%), respectively. Twelve of the toothbrush rinsing water specimens (40%) tested HCV-RNA-positive. In six of these 12 patients, the 'native' saliva had been negative for HCV-RNA. Patients with HCV-RNA-positive toothbrush rinsing water showed no significant differences from those with negative rinsing water with respect to certain clinical, biochemical and virological parameters. In conclusion, our study demonstrates a contamination with HCV-RNA of a considerable portion of toothbrushes used by hepatitis C patients, suggesting at least a theoretical risk of infection by sharing these objects and strengthening the recommendations to take care of a clear separation of these personal care objects between patients and their household members. 

now too make you feel better . if you never used it the whole time you were on treatment you are ok as 3 weeks hcv isnt active . 

hope this helps

 



__________________
Tig


Admin

Status: Offline
Posts: 9270
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Hoodie,

I saw your question and haven’t had time to do much additional research, sorry about the delay. 

Repairing brain damage is totally dependent on the cause and underlying reasons. A stroke for example causes multi faceted injury, neurologic as well as physiologic. Sometimes neurological damage can be repaired by the neural pathways restructuring/rerouting themselves, but rarely do nerves repair themselves. Brain tissue itself is an unusual thing and once damaged severely, it’s kind of a crap shoot. The brain is about as complex an organ as there is. It has so many built in methods of protecting itself, but is about as hard to fix as anything we have. Lots of medications that alter its function, but until recently, many drugs were difficult to deliver to it. Now you hear of things passing through the membrane, versus the bloodstream. All I can say is it’s complicated, to say the least. What do they say, we only use about 20% of it? If we could figure out the rest of it’s capability, the sky would be the limit.



__________________

Tig

67yo GT1A - 5 Mil - A2/F3 - (1996) Intron A - Non Responder, (2013) Peg/Riba/Vic SOT:05/23/13 EOT:12/04/13 SVR 9+ years!

Hep C FAQ   Lab Ref. Ranges  HCV Resistance

Signature Line Set Up/Abbreviations   Payment Assistance

 
Hoodietree


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 379
Date:
Permalink  
 

Iris I totally agree with everyone else dont freak out, there is almost no way you could reinfect yourself!! 



__________________

F, 51, GT3, HCV since 1989, no alcohol since 1999, Fibrosis score F0-1 (.36), VL 216,000, ALT 23, AST 26, Epclusa SOT 7/26/18 EOT 10/18/18. Thank you God. 
5-1-18


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1302
Date:
Permalink  
 

12weeks=UND



__________________

Gt:1a-36yrs .Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on 3.6.18:. A1 activity.  f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND. Eot 6/25=L.J*13weeks=UND * 6 m =UND: CLUB ZERO.1yr.=0
SeeTheLight


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 227
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hi Iris,

From everything I have read I do not feel you will have a problem. The virus only lives quite a short life outside the body. (At max some weeks if in some drops) With the slight the possibility of just a little very watered down blood on the brush and not having  used this brush for 3 months you were on treatment imho I don't believe there would be any active virus left.    

                         KEEP CALM ....... DON'T PANIC peace.gif



__________________

66/F Contracted Early 80's First Diagnosed Early 2000's 2017 re diagnosis and referral for treatment Gen 3a Fibroscan 8.7

Epclusa 12 weeks commenced 1 May 2018 ALT 72 AST 67

28 May 2018 4 weeks ALT 16 AST 23 ...... 23 July 2018 EOT ALT 23 AST 30 .....Oct 16 2018 SVR12 UND
Canuck


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 3249
Date:
Permalink  
 

Geez Iris,

Don't go freakin yersef out over the bristles, just change your bristles (just like you changed out your razor and toothbrush) cuz now you have set yourself up to be worried about it until you do! Over the years, and you being on this site for so long, you must have read a few of the many, many threads and repeated ongoing discussions we have had about toothbrushes/etc. and re-infection ... to deduce how incredibly rare a self/auto-re-infection by this route would be. 5 is right, no posts round here about HCV auto-inoculation toothbrush outbreaks. Focus on your UNDs, they will reassure you. wink 

Interesting reads Tig - I like the vit C one. biggrin umm, given where i am at, how would I ever know if I have grown a few new brain cells? heehee  C. 



__________________

HCV/HBV 1973. HBV resolved. HCV undiagnosed to 2015. 64 y.o. F. Canada.

GT3a, Fibroscan F3/12 kPa - F4/12.6 kPa, VL log 7.01 (10,182,417), steatosis, high iron load.

SOF/VEL with/without GS-9857 trial - NCT02639338.

SOT March 10 - EOT May 5, 2016 - SOF/VEL/VOX 8 week trial.

 

(SEE UPDATES IN BIO)
Hoodietree


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 379
Date:
Medical studies on the blood brain barrier and HCV
Permalink  
 

Wow thank you so much Tig that is fascinating and helpful and important information.

Can you please help me interpret it?

Im reading it as the HCV can cross the blood brain barrier (hello brain fog), But vitamin C can help transport the Epclusa through the blood brain barrier, enabling Epclusa to do its job everywhere not just in the body but also on the other side of the blood brain barrier in my brain.  So my question: Can my brain heal from any damage that has been done by the HCV prior to having Epclusa on board? We know that the liver can heal and repair itself what about the brain? Can I grow new brain cells? I know that I can create new pathways in my brain, what can I do to help my brain heal from any damage done by the HCV? 

Do you know of any studies that have been done on this? What about studies on the relationship between dementia and HCV?

 

 



__________________

F, 51, GT3, HCV since 1989, no alcohol since 1999, Fibrosis score F0-1 (.36), VL 216,000, ALT 23, AST 26, Epclusa SOT 7/26/18 EOT 10/18/18. Thank you God. 
Tig


Admin

Status: Offline
Posts: 9270
Date:
RE: Re infection
Permalink  
 

Iris, 

I don’t believe you have anything to worry about. The risk of reinfection, while possible, is extremely remote and would have to involve infected blood on the brush and a open wound in your mouth. Many people don’t replace their toothbrushes at all during treatment and while we encourage it, simply as an additional way to remove previously exposed surfaces. We do it more to make ourselves feel better, doctors and researchers have never insisted on it. Relapse isn’t considered reinfection. Reinfection is just that, the reintroduction of the virus, which causes a new infection. Relapse occurs from preexisting virus in your body that is capable of beginning the replication process again. Simply put, the virus ability to replicate wasn’t totally stopped by treatment and the immune system is unable to keep it in check. There are testing methods that allow them to determine the genetic profile of the virus, to determine if it’s a new (different) infection or the one we were packing around before, if desired. The fact remains, once SVR12 is obtained, the rates of relapse are <.5% or lower. Don’t worry, Iris, get that final test completed and be confident that you’ll be in the >95% of the people that go on to SVR12. This stuff is good!

I found some excerpts of articles that go into the blood brain barrier issue and will repost it below. Bacteria doesn’t cross the BBB, but viruses can. Most drugs don’t cross it either, but they have developed ways to introduce certain medications to the brain. Kind of an osmosis effect and these new DAA’s are capable of doing that.

Here are the excerpts:


Actually, viruses do cross the blood-brain barrier which is how HIV and HCV (as well as other viruses) get into the brain. 

Below I have included links and exerpts from some (longer) articles: 

"The blood-brain barrier is an intricately coordinated mechanism for protecting the brain. It is essential for the functioning of the complex brain of vertebrates. The breakdown of the blood-brain barrier is implicated in several diseases, including meningitis, epilepsy, and multiple sclerosis. However, even when functioning properly, the blood-brain barrier cannot protect against the entry of some harmful substances, such as viruses, which have developed mechanisms to bypass the barrier. The blood-brain barrier also restricts the entry of antibodies that help to fight bacterial infections that do occur and makes it difficult for the delivery of water-soluble drugs that have been developed to treat diverse conditions. However, an understanding of the mechanism of the blood-brain barrier has allowed researchers to develop means to deliver such drugs." 

"The blood-brain barrier acts very effectively to protect the brain from many common bacterial infections. Thus, infections of the brain are very rare. However, since antibodies are too large to cross the blood-brain barrier, infections of the brain that do occur are often very serious and difficult to treat. Viruses easily bypass the blood-brain barrier, however, attaching themselves to circulating immune cells. The HIV virus uses the brain as a sanctuary, hiding behind the blood-brain barrier from the defense mechanisms of the body (Segal 2001)." 

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Blood-brain_barrier 

This article is also interesting: 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697631/
And this also is an interesting article: 
http://www.thebody.com/content/art233.html 

"Vitamin C could provide a key to unlock the blood-brain barrier, which stops many drugs from getting into the brain where they could potentially treat diseases such as Alzheimer's or epilepsy, according to preliminary findings from researchers in Italy. Dr. Stefano Manfredini and colleagues found that drugs used to treat neurological disorders appear to slip past the blood-brain barrier more easily when a vitamin C molecule is attached. 

"Ascorbic acid works like a sort of a shuttle. Theoretically, it could transport onto the brain any compound," Manfredini told Reuters Health. 

Potential applications include not only drugs for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and epilepsy, but also viral infections, including AIDS. " 



"Substances cross the blood-brain barrier (BBB) by a variety of mechanisms. These include transmembrane diffusion, saturable transporters, adsorptive endocytosis, and the extracellular pathways. Here, we focus on the chief characteristics of two mechanisms especially important in drug delivery: transmembrane diffusion and transporters. Transmembrane diffusion is non-saturable and depends, on first analysis, on the physicochemical characteristics of the substance. However, brain-to-blood efflux systems, enzymatic activity, plasma protein binding, and cerebral blood flow can greatly alter the amount of the substance crossing the BBB. Transport systems increase uptake of ligands by roughly 10-fold and are modified by physiological events and disease states. Most drugs in clinical use to date are small, lipid soluble molecules that cross the BBB by transmembrane diffusion. However, many drug delivery strategies in development target peptides, regulatory proteins, oligonucleotides, glycoproteins, and enzymes for which transporters have been described in recent years. " 

This article discusses HIV drugs and the blood brain barrier: 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2678986/

And this is promising: 
http://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/news/2011/10/potential-new-drugs-plug-brains-biological-vacuum-cleaner-and-target-hiv.aspx



__________________

Tig

67yo GT1A - 5 Mil - A2/F3 - (1996) Intron A - Non Responder, (2013) Peg/Riba/Vic SOT:05/23/13 EOT:12/04/13 SVR 9+ years!

Hep C FAQ   Lab Ref. Ranges  HCV Resistance

Signature Line Set Up/Abbreviations   Payment Assistance

 
5-1-18


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1302
Date:
Permalink  
 

i'm thinking hundreds of ppl never even change their toothbrushes and still get cured.

plus at least the water pushes out of the pik.

but yea, it's something we are bound to think about  till we have that 3 and 6 month lab blankstare



__________________

Gt:1a-36yrs .Started Intron-A in 96' for 2.5mo-VL still too high.taken off. Labs on 3.6.18:. A1 activity.  f3@60: fibrosur bloodtst. AFP=norm. enz=mostly norm.VL=3.9 million.sot=5.1.18>Harvoni>[8wks]: 4WEEKS=UND. Eot 6/25=L.J*13weeks=UND * 6 m =UND: CLUB ZERO.1yr.=0
Iris Dragonfly


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1166
Date:
Permalink  
 

Hey guys, I'm freaking myself out right now.  I was real careful about changing out my razor and toothbrush a couple times during treatment, but tonight without thinking I used my water pic with the bristle attachment. It's the only attachment I use on it. But i haven't used it for the whole time of Tx. Should I worry?  I did spit blood.

Also for those folks that do relapse would that be from re infection? Or the  other variables like. ..what? And does the drug penetrate the blood brain barrier? 

Bb, Iris



__________________

in the silence of the woods, you will not be alone- Chief Seattle

60 years on planet, Female, diagnosed 1978 as non-a non-b, VL 8mill+, Fibro f-1f-2, Genotype 1a, treatment naïve....UNTIL 7-01-18  !!!! started Harvoni 12 weeks. :)

4 weeks=UND, 8 weeks=UND, 12 weeks=UND (EOT= 09-23-2018)
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
Hep C Discussion Forum -> Post Treatment -> Re infection
Legal Disclaimer:

THIS FORUM, IT'S OWNERS, ADMINISTRATORS, MODERATORS AND MEMBERS DO NOT AT ANY TIME GIVE MEDICAL ADVICE AND IN ALL CASES REFER ANYONE HERE TO SEEK APPROPRIATE MEDICAL ADVICE FROM THEIR DOCTOR.