Hep C Discussion Forum

Well Josh, I am already planning my next drink too.    I don't have cirrhosis, and unless I am advised by my doctor to never drink again, I don't see why I can't enjoy a glass of wine or two of an evening.  It's a small pleasure, and we all have our vices.  I figure you are either cured or not.  I doubt if I am ever really cured, that the moderate drinking I've been guilty of in the past is going to result in a reinfection for me.  I certainly won't drink during treatment.

Tig56 wrote:

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Hi Cathy,

Congratulations on your good, no... great! news!! I wish you continued great news and hopes for a fabulous Italian celebration!

http://www.hepatitiscentral.com/mt/archives/2014/08/having-a-beer-after-svr.html?eml=hepcen216

I posted this in a different thread, and thought we had posted here too, but I fail to see it anywhere. It's a good booster site for those that have thoughts and questions on future ETOH use and abuse. I recommend anyone that reads into it to search the available references listed. This site, along with the references offer viewpoints for both sides of the issue. Your statement that we "own" the decisions we make, is spot on and so accurate! Best of luck to all...

Tig

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 Good read Tig, I think the best part is why risk it, have an odooles because 1 beer ain't gonna get ya where you want to go anyway, and after one the next 3-4 come to easy because it's just enough to impair better judgement.

Im a never ever again guy so it's easy for me to say nope! Plus its fun to watch the drunk people even if they are friends...lol

Hi Cathy,

Congratulations on your good, no... great! news!! I wish you continued great news and hopes for a fabulous Italian celebration!

http://www.hepatitiscentral.com/mt/archives/2014/08/having-a-beer-after-svr.html?eml=hepcen216

I posted this in a different thread, and thought we had posted here too, but I fail to see it anywhere. It's a good booster site for those that have thoughts and questions on future ETOH use and abuse. I recommend anyone that reads into it to search the available references listed. This site, along with the references offer viewpoints for both sides of the issue. Your statement that we "own" the decisions we make, is spot on and so accurate! Best of luck to all...

Tig

tgcd78 wrote:

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While I agree with the many reasons not to drink I can also see what Josh is trying to say.  I'm young and most of my friends are single and alcohol is a part of our social lives. I drank regularly before treatment, I had a very high viral load due to it, but I was fortunate enough not to have liver damage.  Alcohol was very easy to give up for treatment.   I don't see myself ever having the same relationship with it because I know I don't need it.   I am kicking this disease in its ass (svr 4 as of this morning) and when I reach SVR 12 I don't see why a glass of wine on special occasions is so faux pas. Tell me alcohol will bring the HepC back and then I will reconsider.   

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No one can predict the future damage drinking will do so if you want an absolute you will never find it.  There is no consensus at this point that drinking alcohol in moderation will absolutely reactivate the HCV virus but I wouldn't consider taking the chance, regardless of my age, knowing what I know about the precarious nature of HCV as well as the precarious nature of alcohol and of human beings. 

This may be offensive to some, but IMO, the only reason anyone would consider continuing to drink alcohol is because they have a dependency on alcohol that they may not wish to acknowledge.   I know this because I have a dependency/addiction to tobacco and, while I have cut back to about 25% of my previous smoking, I still haven't stopped.   When someone who has/had HCV tells me they will continue drinking, but only in moderation, it raises a big red flag that they have a significant emotional dependence on alcohol because logic certainly tells them not to take the chance.  Something to consider, particularly with alcohol, which impairs judgment and can lead to drinking more than one intended to. 

Not only does the potential exist that alcohol may reactivate the virus but also consider the liver damage.   Accurately assessing liver damage is very difficult in reality because all diagnostic methods have significant error margins.  Liver damage will continue with alcohol consumption.  Many Hepatologists advise complete abstinence from alcohol for all HCV patients for this and other reasons. 

While I agree with the many reasons not to drink I can also see what Josh is trying to say.  I'm young and most of my friends are single and alcohol is a part of our social lives. I drank regularly before treatment, I had a very high viral load due to it, but I was fortunate enough not to have liver damage.  Alcohol was very easy to give up for treatment.   I don't see myself ever having the same relationship with it because I know I don't need it.   I am kicking this disease in its ass (svr 4 as of this morning) and when I reach SVR 12 I don't see why a glass of wine on special occasions is so faux pas. Tell me alcohol will bring the HepC back and then I will reconsider.  

Even though I didn't reach SVR, every morning when I got up, looked at, and swallowed the pills that cost around $2000.00 I considered how fortunate and Thankful I was to have the opportunity to clear this virus.  Knowing I have liver issues, I owe it to those who care about me to try and do my best to be there for them.  I have many fond memories of great parties and good times with alcohol.  Now I have to live with the cirrhotic liver and associated health problems knowing I contributed to them.  It is a proven fact that alcohol destroys the liver.  To coin a phrase, " a fool and his health are soon parted" 

My friends all tell me, that I've been such a fool,
And I have to stand back and take it babe, all for lovin' you.
And I drown myself in sorrow, as I look at what you've done
But nothin' seems to change, the bad times stay the same
And I can't run.  Some times I feel, whoa babe, sometimes I feel, like I've been tied to the whipping post.

Greg Allman a neighbor from the past.   Allman Bros Band Live at the Fillmore East.

We can't change the past, but we can through our choices, affect our lives and the lives of others.

If people could understand this one statement, it would serve everyone well. That is to understand that SVR (Sustained Viral Response) is just that, sustained. Your body sustains it but I think using "maintained" might actually be more accurate. Once your body has achieved SVR, which is now considered an undetectable viral load 12 weeks after the end of treatment (EOT +12). The word cured should be used very loosely. Nowhere does SVR list a 100% cure of HCV, most will use a chance of relapse of <1%. SVR is basically the body's ability to utilize it's own immune system to keep the virus at an undetectable level. <5-15 copies IU/ml. An iimmune system crisis could weaken it (your immune system) to such a degree, that viral replication once again overwhelms your immune system, resulting in HCV viral relapse. Doing anything that subjects the body to undue stress and strain can have adverse effects on all body systems. Best to do absolutely everything you can to avoid undue stresses on any system. Best to consider SVR as a potentially fragile state and serving up a beer in a crystal glass that might shatter, is a risk you may not want to take...  Just food for thought.

Tig

wmlj1960 wrote:

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Thanks Duane, but if you were to spend some time with me living life, you would see that I'm not always very inspirational and my outlook gets pretty crappy at times. But that's what happens when you live 40+ years wide open party then wake up / sober up to these consequences.

 There's nothing I can do about that now except move on with what I have left. But I have enough experience with it all that I can share with the younger crowd who are going through what I did and hopefully say something that will prevent them from trashing their body as bad as I did.

 The way I see it, if I can help save a life through my experience, then it makes my mistakes somehow be well worth it.

 I just hope Josh or someone else will learn from my mistakes like I did not do from those the that went before me.

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 Amen to that.

Thanks Duane, but if you were to spend some time with me living life, you would see that I'm not always very inspirational and my outlook gets pretty crappy at times. But that's what happens when you live 40+ years wide open party then wake up / sober up to these consequences.

 There's nothing I can do about that now except move on with what I have left. But I have enough experience with it all that I can share with the younger crowd who are going through what I did and hopefully say something that will prevent them from trashing their body as bad as I did.

 The way I see it, if I can help save a life through my experience, then it makes my mistakes somehow be well worth it.

 I just hope Josh or someone else will learn from my mistakes like I did not do from those the that went before me.

Josh Haynie wrote:

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i monitor everything so much that if beer after SVR damages me or produces a viral count i will indeed stop .....

 

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 Hi Josh.

 Whether to drink or not when / if I acheive SVR is something that has crossed my mind. But it didn't cross it for long before I had my answer. And as a result of plenty of experience in making bad choices for myself, I have learned to base my answer on true experience. And my experience is that last time I monitored my liver damage resulting from drinking alcohol, I monitored it right up into Methodist University Hospital ER via ambulance for an exciting, very costly thorough round of procedures that produced indisputable evidence that I'm not very good at monitoring my liver.

 And I have plenty of indisputable evidence that I am very efficient and thorough at trashing my liver, and that didn't take any hi-tech machines, but it is proving to be the most costly mistake I ever made.

 So I got my answer, and when my mind tries to rationalize and justify a good reason why i can continue to drink alcohol, I have the facts to look at and a choice to make. I've been making the right choice since January and I pray that I continue to. I have no doubt that I've got a good drunk left in me, but I'm also convinced I don't have a snowballs chance in hell of sobering up again in time to live.

 So for me: to drink alcohol is to die. And I agree with beingsassy today: Life spent in sobriety can be so wonderful, so why would taking a chance on screwing that up in favor of drinking a beer even cross my mind in the first place.

It's also not my right to judge, so I can only offer my experience as an example of how not to do it, just like many others that had been down this road before had  offered to me, although I didn't apply any of their experience toward my life.

 My monitoring of my liver got me a decompensated cirrhotic liver that needs to be replaced with a transplant, which is complicated by itself. Then add in my otherwise poor health due to long term HIV infection with poor history of (you guessed it) monitoring of that, and my chances for making it thru this deal are slim although I do have chances. If I choose to drink alcohol again, I'm convinced those chances instantly disappear - no monitoring needed.

I hope you make a wise choice for your future life Josh!!!